Thursday, May 19, 2022

                                                       Interview with Arnold Roth



President Joe Biden met with King Abdullah of Jordan last week. We know what they talked about and what they didn’t talk about because the White House issued a statement outlining the points of discussion. Omitted from that statement is any mention of the failure of Jordan to honor its extradition treaty with the United States. Also missing from the White House statement is any mention of Ahlam al Tamimi, a terrorist, or of the American citizens in whose murder she played an instrumental role. Tamimi chose the venue for the massacre, a central Jerusalem pizzeria; the time the massacre would take place, lunch hour, when the restaurant was sure to be at peak capacity; and she drove the bomber to the location she had chosen, ensuring that all would go as planned.

Among the 15 civilians murdered that day in 2001 were Shoshana Greenbaum, a pregnant woman, and Malki Roth, a 15-year-old girl. Joe Biden would have been careful to refrain from mentioning their names to Abdullah, because the subject of extraditing Tamimi is a touchy one. Tamimi is popular in Jordan, famous for murdering Jewish children.

Tamimi enjoys celebrity status in Jordan. Here she brags on Jordanian television about the Sbarro terror attack in which she played an instrumental role

Tamimi was nonetheless the mastermind of a massacre of United States citizens, and it is clear that this should be the sitting US president’s first, and ultimate concern. That it is not Joe Biden’s first or ultimate concern, is a grave thing to contemplate. It is wrong. But not the only wrong.

Far worse, perhaps, is the fact that Tamimi is only living free in Jordan as a celebrity, because a prime minister of Israel arranged for her release to that country, directly from an Israeli prison. That prime minister was Benjamin Netanyahu.

In his 1995 book, “Fighting Terrorism,” Netanyahu wrote that prisoner exchanges were "a mistake that Israel made over and over again." and that refusing to release jailed terrorists was "among the most important policies that must be adopted in the face of terrorism."

The release of convicted terrorists before they have served their full sentences seems like an easy and tempting way of defusing blackmailed situations in which innocent people may lose their lives, but its utility is momentary at best," said Netanyahu. "Prisoner releases only embolden terrorists by giving them the feeling that even if they are caught, their punishment will be brief. Worse, by leading terrorists to think such demands are likely to be met, they encourage precisely the terrorist blackmail they are supposed to defuse.

Rep. Greg Steube (R-FL 17th District)

The former Israeli prime minister broke with his own philosophy to release 1,027 Arab terrorists for a
single Israeli captive, Gilad Shalit, in 2011. Ahlam Tamimi was one of the terrorists released on that black, black day, 11 years ago. Until now, the parents of Malki Roth, Arnold and Frimet Roth, have fought to get American officials and the mainstream media to take note of this travesty, and to act. Someone finally did, Rep. Greg Steube (R-FL 17th District), who has introduced a bill to limit US assistance to Jordan until the validity of 1995 extradition treaty between the two countries, is recognized.

Arnold Roth took the time to update us on efforts to extradite Tamimi from Jordan, and the much-appreciated active role Congressman Steube has taken in seeking #justiceforMalki:

Varda Epstein: Netanyahu broke with his own philosophy as outlined in his 1995 book, “Fighting Terrorism,” to release 1,027 Arab terrorists for a single Israeli captive in 2011. What do you know about what went into that decision? Is it possible that pressure was brought to bear on Netanyahu by the Obama Administration?

Arnold Roth: Netanyahu happens to have been in Melbourne, where both Malki and I were born, on that awful August day in 2001 when the Sbarro massacre happened and we lost a child. Friends who saw this happen say he was asked by Australian journalists to comment on a terror outrage since one of the victims, according to the reports just then coming in, was a Melbourne girl, a lovely, smiley teenager of 15 – my daughter.

I was told that when he responded, the former prime minister of Israel (who became prime minister once again eight years later) used the expression “my heart goes out to them”. He followed that with some reference to visiting us when he was back in Jerusalem. He of course didn’t visit us but the expression “my heart goes out to them” is etched into my memory because it happens to be one of the things he said when he addressed the nation in October 2011. The occasion was his announcing that he had a done a deal with Hamas to free an Israeli soldier held hostage by them for five years, Gilad Shalit.

It's worth dwelling for a moment on the key paragraph of a best-selling book from the 1990s entitled “Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorists”. In the edition I am looking at as I answer you, Varda, the one published by Farrar Straus Giroux* in 1995 at page 144, the acclaimed author writes:

“A government that seeks the defeat of the terrorists must refuse to release convicted terrorists from prisons… Releasing imprisoned terrorists emboldens them and their colleagues… By nurturing the belief that their demands are likely to be met in the future, you encourage terrorist blackmail of the very kind that you want to stop. Only the most unrelenting refusal to ever give in to such blackmail can prevent this.”

The words of that last sentence ring powerfully for me. But actually the whole quote makes solid sense. The person who wrote them is of course the Israeli leader did the deal with Hamas that served as my daughter’s murderer’s incomprehensible ticket to freedom.

“I keep wondering if he ever read it"

His name is Benjamin Netanyahu and I keep wondering if he ever read it. It’s disappeared of course, from bookstores everywhere now, and for good reason.

I don’t know what motivated him to transact a massive swap of 1,027 terrorists for a captive Israeli soldier, and to market it so heavily to the Israeli public that freeing Shalit at any price (“any price” is the term I remember being used freely when this was happening) had enormous support for a while.

It was of course, like so many things in political life, bogus, a lie wrapped around a tiny grain of truth. There are many, many things Israel would never have done to free Shalit. This one just seemed affordable to the shameless insiders who cooked it up.

Terrible acts of terror against Israelis were executed in the years after the deal was done, executed by people who were in prison right up until the day Shalit walked free, with many of them sentenced to stay there for the rest of their lives, like Ahlam Tamimi.

“His wife pressed him to do it”

But they were freed by Israel and have gone on to lead high-profile lives as terrorists. Yahya Sinwar, for instance, who took over the leadership of Hamas in the Gaza Strip in 2017 and has much blood on his hands.

Netanyahu once said publicly that he did the Shalit deal because his wife pressed him to do it. For some people, let’s say politicians for example, that’s as good a reason as any. I would feel a little less hostile to the man if he had ever taken the trouble to speak with us in the years he was prime minister, a job he lost in 2021. But he never did. And in fact his office remained locked and impervious for years to our efforts to appeal for Israeli help in the Tamimi extradition. Or more accurately, to stop interfering with it. [Emphasis added, V.E.]

Netanyahu won’t get invited to any of my family’s future celebrations. My heart doesn’t go out to him.

The Roth family at Malki's Bat Mitzvah

Varda Epstein: Considering the lack of any meaningful effort by successive US administrations to extradite Ahlam Tamimi from Jordan for the murder of two US citizens, is it possible that the US is bowing to pressure from Israel? What rationale would there be for Israel to quash these efforts?

Arnold Roth: I assume there are multiple factors at work but, yes, I have heard from sources in Washington that there is a view among government insiders that Israel is fine with Tamimi being left alone in Jordan. Whether or not it’s true, the consecutive US administrations of Obama, Trump and Biden have all praised good king Abdullah in ways that are hard for ordinary people to understand. There are compelling reasons why the US ought to be very wary of giving him the moral and political and – which may surprise some people – financial backing that he gets.

Abdullah wields significant power as the owner and operator of the family business – the Hashemite Kingdom. In the past two decades, this has been a profitable undertaking for its shareholders, not so much for its subjects. Jordan may be a basket-case economically, hugely dependent on handouts and with a population suffering from a badly-run economy. But this hasn’t prevented its free-cash flow from serving as the way its king has quietly (until this was exposed in a series of major global news investigations) and surreptitiously become a real estate tycoon in the United States.

“I know there are analysts and think-tank mavens far better informed than me who say it’s best not to endanger his or Jordan’s stability. But those are sentiments of the kind that make sense when they come with no price.”

He owns a much real estate and multiple private aircraft. A well-trained, lavishly equipped military force serves his needs. And since his country is now officially designated (in Freedom House’s most recent global survey) as unfree, it’s obvious he has little fear of his country’s media, parliament or mobs. The evidence is he has excellent connections in the US with powerful friends in Washington and a major US military presence based inside his kingdom’s borders. Less well known is that he spends a fortune on US lawyers and lobbyists.

I know there are analysts and think-tank mavens far better informed than me who say it’s best not to endanger his or Jordan’s stability. But those are sentiments of the kind that make sense when they come with no price.

But the reality is that the hypocrisy and double-talk comes at a high price. Jordan flagrantly breaches its most important treaty with the US and communicates to its people that it stands firmly with the fugitive bomber. It has never paid a price for its embrace of terror. That’s no way for foreign relations to be conducted. It gets noticed by others and in the end, especially in bad neighborhoods like the one where Jordan operates, it comes back to bite you. The way we think about Jordan is long overdue for a reality check.

Varda Epstein: How did Congressman Greg Steube become aware of your situation and the refusal of the US government to get tough with Jordan regarding the existing extradition treaty? Can you outline for us the steps Rep. Steube has taken to bring some justice to this situation? Why now?

Arnold Roth: To his credit, Congressman Steube, a Republican from Florida, has stepped up to the plate several times to press Jordan on this important matter of justice.

Two years ago, the excellent people of EMET Endowment for Middle East Truth led by Sarah Stern suggested that he be the key signatory on a letter from Congress about Tamimi directed at Jordan’s then and current ambassador to Washington. You might be interested to know the ambassador never bothered to respond.

Then in March 2022, Rep. Steube led ten Congressional colleagues in another letter, this one addressing Secretary of State Blinken That too has so far gone unanswered.

As to why now, that would be a good question to ask Steube’s staff. I could imagine him watching with rising fury as Jordan shows ever greater signs of developing into a totalitarian society, having an unfree media culture, providing a safe environment for hateful ideologies, educating its children to think antisemitically and all the while pocketing more foreign aid from US taxpayers than almost any other country – while trampling a strategic treaty with its largest and most important ally.

When you view it that way, the real question might be this: where does the over-the-top warm reception extended last week to King Abdullah by Congressional lawmakers and the President of the United States come from?

Varda Epstein: There has to be a sense of betrayal that Israel released your daughter’s murderer from prison, especially since you threw in your lot with the Jewish State by making Aliyah. Your wife is American. Does she feel a sense of betrayal as an American citizen at the lack of will to push for extradition? How does it feel to be doubly betrayed, so to speak?

Arnold Roth: That’s a hard question to answer. Not because I don’t feel those things but because complaining of being betrayed doesn’t go down well or get you far in the court of public opinion. People have a hard enough time with their own problems.

So first about Israel. Yes, we have certainly been betrayed. That’s the right word: we had rights and they were and are being cruelly trampled and with no regard to what this does to our values as a society. Or to people like us.

“Watching as the convicts walked triumphantly free”

In this, we are not alone. The same thing can be said by all the other families who experienced the murder or maiming of loved ones by terrorists who were sentenced to long prison terms by judges applying very respectable judicial criteria and then watching as the convicts walked triumphantly free.

That should never have happened. Those who argue differently need to review what they think they know about justice and Jewish values.

But it’s clear to us that Israel as a nation didn’t betray us. It was politicians. There’s much more I would want to say about that aspect but not now. We remain as Zionist as the day we arrived in Israel, passionate and proud to be raising our children and grandchildren in the Jewish homeland.

“Did the US betray us? No, and this is a good moment to say that we get gratifying support from wide parts of American society.”

I’m not an American. But Malki was and so are my wife and children.

Did the US betray us? No, and this is a good moment to say that we get gratifying support from wide parts of American society. But as with Israel, the politicians – except for those who have shown a distinct sense of morality and honor – do what politicians do and hurt us in heartless ways. 

From conversations with US government officials, we have the sense – never said to us in this way – that there’s more interest in seeing Ahlam Tamimi slip away and somehow disappear into the desert than in having her stand trial in Washington.

This is not a partisan political thing; we are almost, though not quite, as infuriated by how the GOP has pushed past the Jordan/Tamimi issue as we are by the Democrats. Again, this isn’t about which side of the US divide you stand on.

Much of America’s Jewish community leadership has been unhelpful and cold. Having said that, it’s an exceptionally painful subject that I don’t want to address here. At some point we will because there’s much we have learned on this that we would have preferred never to know. And people ought to know.

Here’s what I want to say about the US government. Other than at the political leadership level, the Justice Department and the FBI have always given us the sense of being with us and wanting the same result we want – Tamimi in a federal court on trial for her terrorism and the deaths she caused. We sincerely appreciate the hard work that has kept the pursuit of the Sbarro bomber going all these years.

“He/she skipped the briefing.”

This is relevant to something that happened some weeks ago when Frimet and I met with a significant US government figure (hereafter SUSGF). And here’s the only part of it worth raising in today’s interview. We were told ahead of time by our own sources that SUSGF was going to receive a briefing before our sit-down from well-connected officials in Washington. But in speaking with us for an hour or so, SUSGF volunteered half-way through that he/she skipped the briefing. Hence our mild hope of getting some insight into why we have been treated as pariahs for so long by the government of which our murdered child was a national was misplaced. We learned nothing. The experience was a waste of everyone’s time.

There’s no point in sharing my feelings about the governments of the past. But here’s a thought about the current administration.

Speaking in July 2021 during the first of the three official visits to the US made by King Abdullah in the past ten months, President Biden called Jordan “loyal and decent friend… We’ve been hanging out together for a long time. It’s good to have him back in the White House.”

“What’s decent about an ally shirking a treaty to appease popular bigotry?”

The same day those comments were reported in the New York Times, Frimet and I wrote an open letter to President Biden. It was published prominently in the Wall Street Journal:

The president, a grieving parent himself, pledged during his inauguration speech to write “an American story of decency and dignity.” Is anything more dignified than doing justice? What’s decent about an ally shirking a treaty to appease popular bigotry?

That question is still on my mind. And again, no response has ever come from the White House.

We also wrote a private letter to Secretary of State Blinken six weeks earlier, in July 2021. He has never answered.

Varda Epstein: On March 20, 2017, the Jordanian Court of Cassation ruled the extradition treaty invalid. Yet we know the US has requested extradition and received fugitive terrorists from Jordan on multiple occasions. Why does Jordan not honor the treaty in practice, if not by law, in the case of Tamimi?

Arnold Roth: Though Abdullah has given various explanations for why Jordan cannot extradite Tamimi, these have all been behind closed doors. He has never publicly addressed the issue. But we do know that Tamimi is a popular Jordanian folk hero.


Varda Epstein: Why do you think that your family was not forewarned before Tamimi was released in the Shalit Deal? Was it an oversight?

Arnold Roth: Not an oversight in any sense. In the eyes of the Israeli government, the need was urgent and the relevant officials had no intention of letting messy citizen actions get in the way. I also think some of them, at least, were aware of how morally and strategically wrong the Shalit Deal was in every respect. So why take chances? Rush it through and let history work out who was right and who wrong.

Murdered Israelis did not get to vote.

Varda Epstein: We know that President Biden met with King Abdullah on Friday. Have you had any information regarding the contents of their conversation? Do you know if the subject of Tamimi’s extradition was raised?

Arnold Roth: America gives tremendous influence to its appointed spokespersons. We have fought to see US justice done since 2012 – a decade. We have come up against spokespersons in the White House and the State Department several times and been deeply embittered by how that process works. With a handful of notable exceptions, there’s no one in the ranks of the media who attend those briefings who has the interest or skill to go head-to-head with them.

So the last time, a year ago, that King Abdullah paid official calls in Washington, the spokespersons in both the White House and the State Department were asked by, as it happens, Associated Press journalists in each place whether the Tamimi issue had come up. The answers they got are a disgrace to the White House and the State Department. They were evasive, unclear and essentially meaningless. There is a serious game being played by these US government employees and it doesn’t get exposed often enough.

An official readout was issued by the White House after President Biden’s tête-à-tête with Abdullah this past Friday. Here’s what it says about Tamimi:

[The two heads of state] reaffirmed the close and enduring nature of the friendship between the United States and Jordan.  Jordan is a critical ally and force for stability in the Middle East, and the President confirmed unwavering U.S. support for Jordan and His Majesty’s leadership.  The leaders consulted on recent events in the region and discussed urgent mechanisms to stem violence, calm rhetoric and reduce tensions in Israel and the West Bank. The President affirmed his strong support for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and cited the need to preserve the historic status quo at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount. The President also recognized the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan’s crucial role as the custodian of Muslim holy places in Jerusalem. The leaders discussed the political and economic benefits of further regional integration in infrastructure, energy, water, and climate projects, with Jordan a critical hub for such cooperation and investment.  They agreed to remain in regular touch and further enhance the historic ties between our countries.

In other words, zero. [Emphasis added. V.E.]

Jordan’s trampling of the 1995 treaty continues and America’s chief executive is fine with it. That’s a showstopper in my opinion. And completely at odds with what he declared in his inauguration speech.

Varda Epstein: Presumably Malki was also an Australian citizen? Australia appears to have signed an extradition treaty with Jordan in 2017, but it is not yet enforced. Can you tell us a bit about this? Why has the proposed extradition treaty not yet been enforced? Are you in touch with authorities on this score? What efforts are you making on the Australian front?

Arnold Roth: Not so. Yes, Malki was born in Australia. Australia spent years negotiating an extradition treaty with Jordan but it pulled out of the negotiations a year or two ago. Australia, for good historical reasons, has warm relations with the Hashemite kingdom.

That's what brought me to write an op-ed in The Australian, five years ago this week in fact. In it I called on then-prime minister Malcolm Turnbull to in effect have a quiet word with his mate King Abdullah. Turnbull's answer was a welcome one, but the follow up by others in his government was not. The initiative ended up falling by the wayside.

For the past two years I made similar efforts with the current Australian leadership via the prime minister's team and his foreign ministry - with frustratingly disappointing outcomes. At this point, Frimet and I have stopped knocking on their doors.

“Justice, Tamimi, Jordan cannot possibly be partisan issues. But there you are. It’s galling.”

Varda Epstein: Is there any US official other than Rep. Steube who has taken an interest in your plight? Is there something American citizens can do to get their own representatives to act? What makes this a propitious time to press for extradition?

Arnold Roth: There is a small handful of lawmakers who have consistently given us their support. But rather than dwell on their identities, the larger point is that we get far less support – almost none -- from the Democrat side. Justice, Tamimi, Jordan cannot possibly be partisan issues. But there you are. It’s galling.

Varda Epstein: Has what happened affected you at the polls, and if so, how? Would you, could you ever support the man who released Tamimi from an Israeli prison?

Arnold Roth: Well phrased. The Shalit Deal cured me of any lingering confusion about politicians capable of doing what Netanyahu and the many who followed him into the catastrophe did. I’m no zealot and am perfectly aware that Bibi has a large following. I don’t preach against him but I have no hesitation in sharing my views of the man and what in my opinion he represents.

Varda Epstein: Let’s say your efforts are rewarded, that Tamimi is extradited to the US and tried in an American court of law. Let’s imagine that she is found guilty and punished. What would that mean for the world, for Jordan, and for your family?

Arnold Roth: It will be an essential affirmation that terrorism is outside the boundaries of what society can tolerate. The failure to adhere to this principle is a catastrophe wherever it happens. And leaders who bring catastrophes on their people ought to suffer rejection and marginalization.

Until that happens, it’s clear to us that in fighting for the principle, we are the ones rejected and marginalized.

*Slightly different than the passage cited in my introduction to this interview, from Background: In book, PM warned not to release terrorists. I chose to include both excerpts for greater clarity of intent. 



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