Dr. Carole Lieberman, AKA The Terrorist Therapist®, has provided
expert advice to readers of my parenting
columns since 2016. In all that time, we never met face to face, and I
never told her where I lived. It was all by email.
Not long after October 7, however, I decided to tell Dr.
Carole that I live in Israel and was worried about my grandchildren, whose home
had taken a hit from a rocket on the first day of the war. I even sent her a
photo of rockets flying over my son’s home in Netivot in southern Israel.
I guess I just felt a need to connect. Dr. Lieberman’s gig
was, after all, terror, and my grandkids had been directly affected. Plus, my
Jewdar told me Dr. Carole was a safe place to confide the reality of my life—where
I actually live—after working with her remotely all these years.
Carole was quick to offer help. She took my address and told
me that her book, Lions and
Tigers and Terrorists, Oh My! How to Protect Your Child in a Time of
Terror, was on its way to me here in Israel. Now that she knew
where I lived, however, Carole wondered if there was something I could do for her.
Dr. Carole Lieberman wanted to find an organization to work
with to bring her book and her expertise in terror to Israel to help children
and families affected by the war. I was so touched by Dr. Lieberman’s desire to
help us—help Israel—in our time of need, and was thankfully able to put her in
touch with the right people.
Carole’s book arrived some time later, and I was
immediately impressed that it was a beautiful book, bright, colorful, and
printed on quality stock—something you don’t often see these days. Then too,
the book was well written—frank and filled with good, solid, honest advice. I
wanted to review the book for this column. But I wasn’t sure that would be a
good move for Carole Lieberman.
I put it to Carole straight: "I want to interview you and review
your book, but EOZ is right wing on Israel. Would the politics of this blog
space harm you by association? I don't want to negatively impact your book
sales."
I sent her some samples of past interviews.
Carole responded, “You don’t have to worry about me being
offended by anything right-wing. I am a Trumper all the way. If he doesn’t win
it will be a disaster for America and Israel.”
The things you find out about a person after kinda sorta
knowing them for almost a decade . . .
***
Varda Epstein: What made you decide to place a focus on terror and
children in your professional life? Did you have a mentor who influenced your
work—or a body of literature to guide your way? It really seems as if you
pioneered this work, at least in the United States.
Carole Lieberman: I’m a born and bred New Yorker, so when 9/11
happened, it broke my heart because, although I had moved to California, my
heart was still in New York – and so was my daughter. She gave me a
minute-by-minute description of what was happening – from the gray smoke that
drifted all the way from lower Manhattan’s World Trade Center-Twin Towers to
the upper tip of Manhattan where she was attending Barnard College. While the
tragedy was happening, I was overcome by a strong sense, a premonition perhaps,
that terrorism was going to be the worst threat that the world would have to
cope with and I asked myself, ‘What can I do – as a psychiatrist, author,
talking head in the media - to help?’ From this, I formed the concept of
devoting myself to work as The Terrorist Therapist® and have continued doing
this to this day. I did not really know much about terrorism when I began, but
I quickly began attending conferences and have been researching and studying it
ever since.
My work has evolved quite a bit since 9/11 and taken me on a
journey of a lifetime. I am honored to do this work because no one else has
ventured this deeply into helping people and warning them about terrorists’
jihadi goals – especially not since America has become so ‘woke’ and some
consider it offensive to tell it like it is – by calling ISIS, Al Qaeda and
other terrorist groups “terrorists.”
I started by creating an audio-video program that was played on
airlines’ inflight entertainment to relax passengers who had become nervous
after the four planes attacked America on 9/11. I used guided imagery and
called it “Shrink on Board.”
Since then, in addition to working 1 on 1 with people, I’ve
written two books on terrorism; host a podcast called “The Terrorist Therapist
Show;” do media interviews; and speaking engagements. I also created a music
video that I play on a mobile billboard going around Manhattan and Washington
D.C. each 9/11 anniversary, to remind people about the tragedy and terrorism in
general; how to talk to kids about it; psychological symptoms of Post-Traumatic
Stress Disorder; how terrorists are determined to create global jihad; and how
those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
 |
| Dr. Carole's mobile billboard |
Varda Epstein: You’re based in California. How many children are
you currently working with who have experienced terror, either firsthand or
second hand? Can you give us some idea of what these children have gone through
and how it affects them? What is the age range of the children you work with?
Carole Lieberman: As a psychiatrist, I do therapy with children,
teens and adults in California and New York – since I am licensed in both states.
I’ve also helped families in London and Paris, in regard to the trauma they
feel from their terror attacks. I’ve lived in these cities, so it was
especially heartbreaking to see the damage terrorists had done. London’s “9/11”
was their 2005 attacks on the Tube and on one of their iconic double-decker
buses. My first book about terrorism, Coping
with Terrorism: Dreams Interrupted, was published by a London publisher
in 2006, as the 1st anniversary edition of 7/7. I spent two weeks in
London, when the book came out and helped families, especially those who had
lost loved ones in this attack, to heal. When my second book about terrorism, Lions and
Tigers and Terrorists, Oh My! How to Protect Your Child in a Time of
Terror, won an award from the London Book Festival, I returned to London
and went to Manchester as well, because there had been a terror attack on the
concert hall there. I met with people in a floating bookstore on the Thames; libraries;
cafés; and at Anna Freud’s Hampstead Clinic, where I had studied years ago. I helped
families process the increasing threat of terrorism and found that children
were especially hungry for an opportunity to talk about their feelings and to
hear the truth instead of being told not to worry about it. Grownups were
surprised at their questions: how much they knew, how many misconceptions they
had, and – how eagerly they expressed their feelings, despite the usual British
stiff-upper lip.
Paris has suffered several terror attacks. Their ‘9/11’ was the
2015 attack on Le Stade soccer stadium, restaurants, bars, and Le Bataclan
concert venue. When Lions and Tigers and Terrorists won the Paris Book
Festival, it was another opportunity for me to help, since I spoke French. I went
to a concert at the Bataclan to try to better understand what it was like for
the audience when they were attacked. It was chilling to see that they were
easy prey for the terrorists because it was like ‘shooting fish in a barrel.’ I
met with people at the Café Bataclan who were clearly still traumatized. I met
with teachers at a school; a parents’ group; librarians; and doctors at the
American Hospital in Paris, encouraging them to express their feelings about
terrorism. I also met with a group of writers at Shakespeare and Company, the
iconic French bookstore on the Left Bank. It was fascinating and rewarding to
talk with so many different people about the impact of terrorism on their
lives. Parisians are very proud of their beautiful ‘City of Light,’ so they
were pained, not only by the deaths and injuries, but by the destruction of their
surroundings.
As the years since 9/11 have passed, many Americans who weren’t
living near the sites of the attacks in New York City, Washington D.C., or Pennsylvania
have pushed their memories of that day into their unconscious mind or gone into
denial. So, patients in America don’t necessarily say that 9/11 is the reason
they’re coming into therapy. Yet, the problems they have – depression, anxiety,
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and so on – have a connection to 9/11. It is
always fascinating to see how that date coincided with something significant in
their lives, in addition to the attack.
Depending upon the age of the children, teens and young adults who
I work with currently, they either weren’t born yet by 9/11, or were children
during that time and in the aftermath. What has been most striking and very
worrisome is the powerful and lasting impact of terror attacks. Even if the
person wasn’t alive at the time of the attack, but they were raised by parents
who were alive then, they absorb the “terror” from their parents by osmosis. In
other words, the trauma that the parents experienced gets inadvertently
communicated to their children and makes them feel fearful of the outside
world; feel more amenable to having “Big Brother” take care of them; and feel
less ambitious because they have a sense of uncertainty and impending doom. These
effects can be mitigated by parents and families who recognize these dangers
and actively seek to soothe and counteract them.
 |
| Speaking at Route 91 Survivors (Las Vegas shooting) on recovering from trauma |
Varda Epstein: Tell us something about your book, Lions and
Tigers and Terrorists, Oh My! How is it structured—is it for parents or for
children? Can you talk about the use of The Wizard of Oz as a frame of
reference, or metaphor for terror?
Carole Lieberman: My book, Lions and Tigers and Terrorists, Oh
My! How to Protect Your Child in a Time of Terror, was written to help
grownups talk to their kids about terrorism and to help kids learn the truth
about terrorism without feeling terrified.
The first half of the book, for parents and teachers, answers
kids’ most common questions (including the ones they don’t ask aloud); provides
guidelines for how to make kids become more resilient; and how to process the
experience of terrorism so that it leaves the least scars. Too many grownups
are afraid to talk to their kids about it because they say they, “don’t want to
scare them.” But they don’t realize that kids have seen and heard so much about
terrorism that already scares them because they don’t understand it. They get
snippets of news and may even have seen an attack at their front door. Their
friends tell them stories, too, and it all becomes a muddle of confusion. Kids
can handle a lot if grownups explain it to them calmly and provide a way for
them to digest it. The most important role that parents can play is to get kids
to express their feelings so that they don’t just swallow them and develop
psychological problems later on. The grownups part of the book concludes with
88 ideas that parents and teachers can do with kids to help them grow up
healthy and happy, despite it being a time of terror.
The second half of the book is an interactive picture book for
kids. This is best read together with a grownup, so that kids can ask questions
as they go along. For example, in answer to the question, “What is a
terrorist?” the book shows a picture of a bully on the playground with the
words, “A terrorist is like a big bully on the playground,” and goes on to
explain more.
Before the page with Osama Bin Laden’s picture, kids are asked to
draw what they imagine a real terrorist looks like. There are pictures of
terrorists in the Middle East, too, along with answers to why terrorists are
trying to hurt people. There are opportunities for kids to draw how they’re
feeling and point to emojis that match their feelings; draw their “safe place”
and so on. The children’s part of the book concludes with 10 lessons or
activities kids can do to make themselves safer.
The overall idea is to turn homes and classrooms into more nurturing
and comforting nests to nourish and develop kids into more resilient beings who
can cope with terrorism.
The Wizard of Oz is the story from which the book title comes. It describes
Dorothy, the Tin Man, and the Scarecrow skipping off to find the Wizard. When
night falls, the forest becomes a scary place, especially when the Tin Man says
they might meet “lions and tigers and bears.” But, since they each want to ask
the Wizard for something important, they find the courage within themselves to
continue, now singing, “Lions and tigers and bears, Oh My!” The Tin Man wants a
heart, the Scarecrow wants brains, and Dorothy wants to go home. Later, the
Lion joins their quest because he wants courage. So, the moral of the story is
that we each have enough heart, brains and courage to see us through scary
times and there’s “No place like home.”
 |
| Carole in Paris, helping teachers talk about terrorism with their students |
Varda Epstein: Do you think the experience of terror is universal?
Do children in the United States, for example, experience terror differently,
and if so, how so? Are their needs in the aftermath of terror different?
Carole Lieberman: To some degree, the experience of terror is
universal, but different societies raise children with different tolerances and
strengths to withstand it. For example, in America these days, many children
are coddled too much and aren’t given enough opportunities to build character
by being put into character-building situations – such as learning to be
independent in summer sleepaway camps. The more challenges children have, that
they are helped to overcome, the more confidence they have in themselves for
dealing with future challenges – including terrorism. The only caveat to this
is that children who already have psychological problems before terror attacks
are often less able to cope with the added stress of terror. In the aftermath,
every child needs a loving support system to see them through.
 |
"The Terrorist Therapist®" on Good Morning Britain
|
Varda Epstein: Your book,
published in 2017, tells parents to “teach tolerance.” You write, for example,
“Explain that most Muslims, believers in Islam, are not terrorists or ‘bad
guys.’ They want to live peaceful lives, too.” Do you still believe this, even
in the wake of what happened on October 7, when ordinary Gazans and UNRWA
teachers joined in the rape, sexual violence, and massacre of peaceful
Israelis? How can one know that most Muslims are not terrorists? Are there
statistics? Is this a helpful thing to teach Israeli children as well as
American children?
Carole Lieberman: It is very tricky to walk the fine line of not
teaching kids to be Islamophobic while giving them a true picture of Muslims
and Radical Islamist terrorists. All Muslims have the potential to be or become
Radical Islamists because they believe in the Koran to a greater or lesser
extent and most belong to a mosque. In America there are fewer madrassas than
in the Middle East, so there are fewer children who are taught to become
terrorists from the time they are toddlers. Israel, on the other hand, is surrounded
by countries that do have madrassas which teach children that the holiest life
they could lead, and for which they would be rewarded in the afterlife, is to
devote themselves to destroying Israel and killing Jews. This puts Israel in
greater danger.
Certainly, there have not been many Muslims – anywhere in the
world - who have spoken out against terrorists and terror attacks, so they seem
to be giving tacit approval by quietly condoning them. Still, there are Muslims
who don’t approve and want peace. It’s safe to say that, “Not all Muslims are
terrorists, and not all terrorists are Muslim.”
It's hard to know percentages as to how many Muslims are radical
Islamists. Some radical Islamists can be said to “misinterpret” the Koran in a
way that gives them the right to kill Jews or even encourages them to kill
Jews. Radical Islamists claim that they are not “misinterpreting” the Koran –
but that all Muslims are commanded by Allah to not only destroy Israel and
Jews, but to perpetrate global jihad against ALL infidels – Jews, Christians,
anyone who doesn’t worship Allah as their only God.
Of course, it is hard to explain why children (or adults) in
Israel should not be terrified of all Muslims, no less open their hearts to
them, after October 7. The terrorists acted like primitive animals, driven by
their religious zeal, believing that they were doing the most honorable acts –
even as they were raping and murdering. But, on the other hand, Israelis and
American Jews have the most open hearts on earth, so it is not good to teach
them to harden their heart to anyone, but rather to be very careful.
 |
| Dr. Lieberman is a highly sought talk show guest for her expertise on children and terror |
Varda Epstein: Reading your book after October 7, while Israel
still has captives in Gaza, I found myself nodding at some parts of your book,
while other parts distressed me, because they didn’t seem like they made sense
for the children directly affected by Israel’s “Black Sabbath.”
This part, for example:
Things didn’t exactly play out this way for the children of
Be’eri, Nir Oz, Kfar Aza, and other places that came under attack. What should
Israeli parents be telling their children to do if their mommies don’t pick
them up from school or don’t come home because they are being held hostage in
Gaza? What do you tell Israeli children who saw atrocities visited on their
siblings, parents, and neighbors?
Carole Lieberman: Although it is true that many of the children of
Be’eri, Nir Oz, Kfar Aza and other places that came under attack lost parents
and siblings, and were plunged into chaos on October 7, they were eventually
rescued by friends, family, or social agencies who tried to comfort them and
help them get back to as normal a life as possible. These children who saw
atrocities and lost loved ones will be more traumatized than children in parts
of Israel that were not attacked. The best way to help them is to gently get
them to express their feelings – not to hold them in, and to provide food,
shelter and caring people around them, as well as a simple and steady routine
of school, mealtimes, bedtimes, and so on.
 |
| At Bataclan in Paris |
Varda Epstein: Is there a right or wrong way to teach
children about a loved one’s death due to terror? For example, on October 7,
there were children whose parents and/or siblings were killed or brutalized in
other ways in front of them. How can we explain to them why this happened, or
the nature of what happened, and why it had to happen in front of them? Is
there a way to make them feel safe going forward?
Carole Lieberman: The way to teach children about a loved one’s
death due to terror will depend upon the age and psychological maturity of the
child. If they are younger than 7 or 8 or so, they are not usually able to
understand the permanency of death. If a child saw their loved one killed, in
some ways it is easier to explain death, but harder to erase the memory of how
they died. Ask them what they believe happens to someone after they die. If
what they believe comforts them, such as their mommy or daddy being up on a
cloud in heaven, listening to angels play harps and eating chocolate-covered
macaroons, there’s no reason to take this away from them. It’s especially
helpful to point out signs that their loved one is still with them in spirit,
such as when they see something that had special significance to their loved
one – like an animal or poem, or when something good happens to them. If
possible, it’s comforting for them to carry with them a photograph, an article
of clothing, or something else that belonged to their loved one. It’s important
to encourage the children to talk about good memories they have of their loved
ones, and to write these down in a diary, so that they can think of the good
memories whenever the bad memory of their death comes to their mind.
You can explain that the people who brutalized or killed their
loved one were driven by a false belief that they were going to be rewarded for
killing people who don’t believe in the same religion that they do – radical
Islam. For some, you can explain that terrorists were taught from the time that
they were little, in schools called madrassas, that their goal in life should
be to kill all the people who don’t believe in their god, Allah, and to start
with Israel first. It wasn’t because their loved one was bad or did anything to
deserve being killed. If it happened in front of them, it was because this gave
the cruel terrorists pleasure and they wanted to warn others that they had
better follow their rules in the future.
To reassure these children, you can tell them about all the
people, organizations, the IDF and so on, who are working to keep them safe all
the time. It often helps to tell them that their lost loved one has become
their guardian angel and will try to guide them to keep safe.
Varda Epstein: There was a recent story about a social
worker who stayed on the phone with the Idan children
(ages 6 and 9, the siblings of released 4-year-old hostage Abigail) for 12
hours as they hid in a closet from terrorists who had infiltrated their
kibbutz on October 7. Their mother had been murdered and her body was right
outside the closet door. How would you grade this social worker’s performance?
 |
| The Idan children hid on the shelves on this closet for 12 hours until they were rescued, with their mother's body right outside the door. |
Carole Lieberman: I think this social worker did an excellent job
of keeping the Idan children comforted and safe. Her instincts told her when
they shouldn’t open the door to terrorists or be seen by them from the window.
She also realized how important it was for the phone to have enough charge to
keep her connected as their lifeline. She made sure that the little boy was
able to bear the sight of his deceased mother, who he would have to see if he
made his way to get the charger. She kept her voice calm and soothing and
promised that she would stay with them until they got rescued, which turned out
to be 12 hours later. But she kept her promise.
 |
| Book talk at the Hollywood Book Festival |
Varda Epstein: How should Israeli parents talk to their
children about October 7th and the hostage situation? What can we say or
do for children whose loved ones are still held hostage? For very young
children, is it better to distract them from the subject of an absent, hostage
parent or sibling, or is it preferable to help keep their memories of these
loved ones, alive?
Carole Lieberman: It is important not to pretend that a
child’s loved one, who is still being held hostage, hasn’t been taken by Hamas.
On the other hand, this isn’t something that needs to be spoken about 24/7.
Children can be comforted by knowing that there is still a chance that their
loved one may survive and be returned to them, as they have seen in the news
happen for other families. Of course, they want to know why their parent
or sibling hasn’t returned, but at least there is still hope. It’s important to
reassure them that their loved one isn’t choosing to be away from them, but
that the “bad people,” the terrorists, are holding onto them to try to get what
they want from Israel.
Families should not promise children that their loved one
will absolutely return home in case this doesn’t happen. But you can keep a
photo or an object that brings back memories of the hostage in a visible place,
and pray together for their safe return. You can also ask the child to talk
about what they would like to do with their loved one when they get back. The
most important thing is to get the child to express their feelings: sadness,
anger, longing, hope, and so on.
Varda Epstein: Should all Israeli children, in general,
be considered to be affected by terror? What should Israeli parents be on the
watch for with their children? What are the warning signs that a child affected
by terror needs help from a mental health professional?
Carole Lieberman: All Israeli children are affected by
terror – whether they have seen it up close and personal, or in the media, or
have just absorbed the terror from those around them. Some children won’t show
it and will try to pretend that nothing is different or wrong, especially if
they get the message from others that they’re not supposed to talk about it.
Terror often makes children regress, behaving as they did
when they were much younger. For example, they may wet the bed, be afraid of
the dark, or suck their thumb. It’s important not to shame them for these signs
that they need more comforting. If these behaviors persist, they need help from
a mental health professional.
The four basic reactions children have to terror are feeling
scared, sad, mad, or bad. It’s natural to feel scared after October 7, but
parents need to be on the lookout for symptoms that this has progressed from
reasonable fear to more serious anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, or
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. It’s also natural for children to feel sad,
knowing terrorists have hurt people or taken them as hostages, but parents need
to be aware that this can turn into more serious depression. It’s also natural
for children to feel mad about what happened on October 7, and that their life
has still not been able to return to normal. But parents should get
professional help if their child starts acting out their anger. Feeling bad
happens when children can’t distinguish exactly how they feel. They feel a muddle
of scared, sad, mad and perhaps other emotions, too. If their confusion and
malaise persists, they, too may need professional help.
 |
| Book launch at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. |
Varda Epstein: What about the Israeli children who were
held captive, and then released? What should we expect to see, and how can they
be helped? Will they ever experience complete healing—is that possible?
Carole Lieberman: The Israeli children who were held
captive and then released will have psychological scars, the gravity of which
will depend upon their age, their psychological stability before they were held
captive, and how they were treated in Hamas captivity. Of course, they’ll be
happy and excited to return to their families, but this should not be
interpreted as their having no scars. All of them need to be in intensive
psychotherapy – at least for a few years – depending upon the severity of their
trauma. The biggest risk, when families are so thrilled to have them come home,
is to overlook the deeper wounds inside and pretend that everything will be
okay just because they’re back home. These children won’t want to worry their
families by telling them about the worst atrocities they’ve experienced as
hostages. So, they need a professional therapist to gradually allow them to
talk about it, or to express their feelings through play therapy, and
eventually heal.
Varda Epstein: I have heard it said, even before October
7, that there is not a person in Israel who is not suffering from PTSD as a
result of terror, even when the terror is only something they hear about or
read about happening to others. Do you think there is any truth to this
idea?
Carole Lieberman: In America, studies show that people
who weren’t anywhere near sites of 9/11 attacks, but who watched news reports
of that day over and over again on television, developed PTSD. So, it is likely
that there’s not a person in Israel who is not suffering from some degree of
PTSD as a result of terror, even when the terror is only something they hear
about or read about happening to others. This is especially true for those
Israelis who have endured many terror threats and attacks beginning way before
October 7th.
Varda Epstein: How should parents talk to kids about terror? What
are some common misperceptions children may have about terror and how can we
help clarify things for them in a helpful way?
Carole Lieberman: The two most important things that parents must
remember when talking to kids about terror are to tell them the truth (though
softening the roughest parts is allowed, especially for young children), and to
prioritize getting them to talk about their feelings, so that they don’t
swallow them and hold them inside, or else they’ll have psychological problems
down the road.
The most damaging misperception that children have about terrorism
is that they, their family or their country as a whole, must have done
something wrong to deserve the punishment dished out by terrorists. This is why
it’s important to explain that terrorists are taught - from the time they are
toddlers - to hate everyone who doesn’t believe in their God, Allah, and to
wage war (jihad) on them. Grownups need to reassure children that there are
many people who are aware of this and who work every day to protect them.
 |
| Route91Strong Anniversary Fundraiser For Victims Of The October 1st, 2017 Las Vegas Shooting, with Lisa Vanderpump |
Varda Epstein: What advice can you offer to Israeli parents and
children at this difficult time?
Carole Lieberman: Israelis have some advantages over Americans
when it comes to coping with terrorism. For one thing, Israeli children are
raised to value becoming resilient. For another thing, there is a stronger
appreciation of God than in some American homes. It is comforting to remember
that God has always looked out for Israel and Jewish people. He is more
powerful than terrorists. With His help, you can turn all the evil that has
happened, from October 7th on, into something good: making your home
an even more loving and nurturing nest that provides even more comfort and
strength for all family members. Am Yisrael Chai.
***
Carole Lieberman, M.D., M.P.H. is a Board-Certified Beverly Hills
psychiatrist who treats patients; testifies at trials as an expert witness; and
is a regular, three-time Emmy Award-winning guest on such top TV shows as Oprah,
the Today Show, Good Morning America, CNN, FOX News, HLN, ET, ABC, CBS, NBC,
Oxygen, Court TV, and Law and Crime. Lieberman received her training at
NYU-Bellevue and at Anna Freud's London Clinic and has served on the Clinical
Faculty of UCLA's Neuropsychiatric Institute. She hosts “Dr. Carole’s
Couch” on VoiceAmerica and the “Terrorist Therapist Show” podcast.
Known worldwide as The
Terrorist Therapist®, Dr. Lieberman is also the bestselling award-winning
author of four books, two of them on terror. Dr. Lieberman’s book, the first of
its kind on children and terror, can be purchased on Amazon at the following
link: Lions and
Tigers and Terrorists, Oh My! How to Protect Your Child in a Time of
Terror
|
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Thursday, January 16, 2025
Elder of Ziyon
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