Friday, July 01, 2011

  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
Sometimes, one can find real reporting among the news sites:



Also they quote opposition claims:
These are more details the organisation have given us about the repression they face in their effort to bring about change in Syria.

They claim to have the names of 1450 dead civilians, among them 91 children, 41 women, and 193 soldiers who they claim were killed for refusing to obey orders to open fire on protestors.

They claim between 5000 and 16000 have been detained and ‘tens were returned dead with torture marks on their bodies to their families, many are missing and we have no idea if they are alive or dead.’

Oppostion groups claim the regime returns the mutilated bodies of dead and tortured teenagers to instil fear in their opponents. A number of chilling videos of the bodies of dead children and youths have been posted on YouTube in recent months corroborating these claims.
And they have shocking claims about the injured.

‘Most of them don't get proper medical care , because they're afraid of being arrested or mishandled by security forces in hospitals, some of the injured who went to public hospitals were killed there.’
  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
This past week I mentioned that Jewish graves at the Mount of Olives were vandalized by Arabs.

JTA also reported in that link, "At the same time, local Arabs began illegally expanding a mosque to within 15 feet of the grave of Menachem Begin."

Here is video of that mosque being built as the Arab workers ignoring the court order to stop:


The mainstream Israeli English language media is not reporting on this outrage; only Arutz-7.

(h/t Yerushalimey)
  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
Commenter Don gave the idea for the first, thanks to another comment by Challah Hu Akbar, and I ran with it:





  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
From Al  Masry al Youm:
Three months after news surfaced that military police conducted virginity tests on female prostesters, Samira Ibrahim, one of the victims, has lodged an official complaint with the military prosecution.

Following her complaint, Ibrahim was brought in on Tuesday by the military prosecution to give a detailed account of her experience. She shared some of her story with Al-Masry Al-Youm.

Seventeen girls were among the 173 protesters arrested on 9 March as the military police forcibly cleared protesters from Tahrir Square. Many detainees reported being tortured, but some women, who were released four days later, announced in the media that they were forced to undergo virginity tests during their incarceration.

The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), Egypt’s de-facto rulers since the president resigned in February, denied the allegations, but a CNN report in May quoted a senior general, speaking on condition of anonymity, as admitting to the practice.

The general said that the tests aimed at protecting the military from rape accusations by the girls later by proving that they were not virgins when they were first brought in. “None of them were virgins,” he added, according to CNN’s report.

Infuriated by the claim, Ibrahim and many of the other girls who shared her ordeal say that they are willing to take another virginity test to prove the general wrong.

After being arrested in Tahrir Square, Ibrahim was taken to the Egyptian museum with other captured protesters.

“As they arrested us, they were saying that we are accused of prostitution, and when I tried to object I was electrocuted,” Ibrahim told Al-Masry Al-Youm.

The women say that they were verbally abused by the military as they were held in the Egyptian museum for six hours. Military police insulted them and accused them of sexual activity inside Tahrir Square, the women say, though they say that the men arrested with them were tortured more severely.

The men were also electrocuted in “sensitive areas”, according to Ibrahim.

Mohamed Adel, one of those arrested on 9 March, says that the girls were sexually harassed by officers in the military prosecution.

After hours of abuse, the virginity tests started.

Ibrahim’s story goes like this. The girls were asked to separate into two rows: one for the virgins and one for the non-virgins. The girls who said they were virgins were then taken to a room one by one. All the windows and the doors of the room were open and there were officers watching inside and outside the room as a male, whom they suspect was a non-medical officer, conducted the virginity tests.

“When I asked for a female to conduct the test and for the other males in the room to leave, I was electrocuted,” says Ibrahim.

Many of the girls say that they still haven’t completely recovered from the emotional damage of the experience. They were then transferred to a center for military prosecution and most were released four days later.

“When I came out of prison, I was completely destroyed. I had to go see a psychiatrist,” says Ibrahim.

Since her release, Ibrahim has kept the virginity test a secret from her friends and family, fearing that they might not believe her or that they would stop her engaging in political activity. However, she says that she was not afraid to issue the complaint, and is not afraid that her family will notice if she talks to the media.

“The worst that can happen already has,” she says.

Ibrahim says that she has been receiving threatening phone calls since she made the complaint, telling her that if she goes through with it she will serve her suspended one-year sentence, which she received before her release in March.
The military government will investigate the military police. Sounds real encouraging.But you have to give her props; she's got guts.
  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
From YNet:

The Security Council on Thursday extended the mandate of the United Nations force monitoring the ceasefire in the Golan Heights between Israel and Syria for another six months.

According to a UN press release, the resolution extending UN Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) mandate was adopted unanimously. The statement said the UN Security Council was "deeply concerned that recent events have put the long-held ceasefire in jeopardy."

UNDOF did nothing to stop Syria from sending their people to the Israeli border on May 15 and June 5, pretending that they were "Palestinians."

To their credit, the US and Germany noted this. From the UN press release:
Speaking in explanation of position after the vote, Council members noted that the renewal deviated from previous practice, with several stressing that the events of 15 May and 5 June were the most serious since UNDOF’s creation and could not go unremarked. Representatives of the United States and Germany, among others, expressed concern that the Syrian Government had played a role in those demonstrations, and suggested that it seemed willing to risk an international conflict to divert attention from its own domestic demonstrations.
The UN being the UN, of course, those concerns were buried by Russia and China:

A number of speakers highlighted the Secretary-General’s recent call for the Council to express itself on Syria, suggesting that such expression was long overdue. Stressing that the situation in Syria was not sustainable, the representative of the United Kingdom said delegation would continue to press for a resolution on the situation in Syria. However, the representative of the Russian Federation pointed out that Syria was not on the Council’s agenda, while China’s delegate said the Syria question was an internal affair and should be left to the parties concerned.

Ron Prosor, the new Israeli ambassador to the UN, spoke:
RON PROSOR ( Israel) stressed that the international community must continue to support UNDOF’s mandate, underlining the need for all parties fully to respect the disengagement line. Indeed, given the regional instability, the need for doing so had never been clearer. As for recent events, he recalled that on 15 May a large organized group of protesters had torn through the defence wall and engaged with the Israel Defence Force near Majal Chams. On 5 June, hundreds had sought to breach the disengagement line with Israel, trying to break through the fence, he said, adding that they had also thrown Molotov cocktails and used other modes of violence.

Noting that the Syrian regime had not prevented demonstrators from reaching the line nor stopped their attempt to breach the defence walls, he said its actions were a blatant attempt to distract attention from its own internal actions. Indeed, the regime’s fingerprints “are all over this process”, he said, adding that one need not be a forensic detective to see them. He said Bashar al-Assad was the only ophthalmologist he knew who was incapable of ensuring the vision of his own people, adding that the Syrian regime should not be allowed to behave in such a way just because it did not want the cries of its own citizens to be heard.
  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
Gazans enjoyed a weekend at the beach:



Nearly 8000 Gazans traveled between Gaza and Egypt.

342 Gazans (mostly patients and families) went into Israel.

Nearly 30,000 tons of goods were unloaded in Gaza from Israel.

UNRWA continued the "Summer Games" activities for children, which included bouncy castles, pools and trampolines:




(h/t Khaled Abu Toameh for top set of photos, read his article.)
  • Friday, July 01, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
You know how the flotilla organizers are claiming that they would give their aid directly to the people of Gaza and not go through Hamas?

It is a little hard to believe.


August, 2008: A British citizen who arrived on a Free Gaza boat gets a "Palestinian passport" from Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh and Mahmoud Zahar.


August 2008: Hamas leader Haniyeh shakes hands with Free Gaza representative Paul Larudee as other boat passengers look on.





August 2008: Hamas' Ismail Haniyeh presents medals of honor to the members of the Free Gaza Movement that arrived in Gaza. In his home.








October, 2008: Free Gaza passenger - and Nobel Peace Prize winner - Mairead McGuire accepts a gift from Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.


October 2009: Veterans for Peace members meet with Ismail Haniyeh


Date Unknown: Vittorio Arrigoni, of the Free Gaza movement, having a laugh with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.


Date Unknown: Viva Palestina leader George Galloway meets with Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas.


Thursday, June 30, 2011

  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
A very well-written post from A Soldier's Mother:

My message to Hedy Epstein as she sails to Gaza:

Your participation, in the flotilla brings shame to you and worse is a betrayal of your family, those that died in Auschwitz. It is hard to comprehend how distorted your view of life, of Judaism, and of Israel must be to bring you to the point that you sail against your own people. Yes, you’ll say you sail for human rights, for humanity and some such nonsense but last year’s flotilla – and very likely this one, displayed the worst of humanity.

There is no humanitarian crisis – so says the Red Cross just two months ago. What arrogance you have to think you know better. You, who make your life in America, dare to tell us how we should live in this land, in this area.

Had there been an Israel when your family was taken to Auschwitz, Israel would have saved them – as we have saved Jews all over the world. No, we are not going to be victims ever again, nor are we interested in making the Palestinians victims.

Read the whole thing.

(h/t Israel Matzav)
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
From Philosemitism:


The film poster shows French comic actor Dieudonné, dressed in military uniform and hilarious, feeding a tiny portion of food [is it food?] to a hungry man dressed as a concentration camp prisoner begging for something to eat. The subtitle of the film refers to "the first popular comedy about the Holocaust". According to the poster, the film has been preemptively banned from cinemas and video outlets in France. It will be sold through Dieudonné's website.

Dieudonné ran for the presidential elections 2009 under the label of the "anti-Zionist party".
According to L'Express magazine, the comedian, who is still very popular in France, claimed in a press conference that the goal of the film is to highlight the role of Zionism in slavery in Europe.
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
From Gulf News:
The UN-backed Special Tribunal for Lebanon (STL) probing the assassination of former premier Rafik Hariri on Thursday issued its long-awaited indictment and accused four Hezbollah members of the murder, Lebanese officials and media said on Thursday.

"I will now examine the indictment and the warrants to take the appropriate measures," Lebanese prosecutor Saeed Mirza was quoted as telling reporters following a meeting with a three-member delegation from the Special Tribunal for Lebanon.
The Daily Star lists them:

Following are profiles of Lebanese reportedly mentioned in the indictment by the Special Tribunal for Lebanon. An STL delegation met with Lebanon's state prosecutor Thursday, reportedly handing him a copy of the Lebanon portion of the indictment which includes four names.

Mustafa Badreddine

Mustafa Badreddine, the brother in-law of assassinated Hezbollah commander Imad Mughniyeh, is the prime suspect in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri on February 14, 2005. Badreddine replaced Mughniyeh as Hezbollah’s chief operations officer after he was killed in a mysterious explosion in Syria on Feb. 12, 2008. The 50-year old is a member of the Hezbollah Shura Council. He was arrested in Kuwait in 1990, broke out of prison and escaped to the Iranian Embassy in Kuwait, and Iran’s revolutionary guard escorted him to Lebanon.

Badreddine, also known as Elias Saab, who is a little older then Mughniyeh, was prior to the 1982 war with Israel in Lebanon an officer in the Palestinian Fatah elite “Force 17” in Beirut. He was the trainer of Mughniyeh in “Force 17” in sabotage and bombs construction. After Fatah was expelled from Beirut, in October of 1982, they joined together the newly formed Shiite militia - the “Oppressed on Earth” supported by Iran, which became soon the base for the Hezbollah.

Salim Ayyash

Salim Ayyash, 48, is accused of leading the cell which executed the assassination of Hariri. He holds a U.S. passport and is a volunteer with the Lebanon’s Civil Defense.

Asad Sabra

No information is available at this time

Hasan Ainessi

No information is available at this time
Ya Libnan adds:
Salim al-Ayyash , also known as “Abu Salim,” is one of the four suspects named by the Special Tribunal for Lebanon in its indictment of Hezbollah members in the murder of Lebanon’s former PM Rafik hariri who was assassinated on feb 14, 2005 in Beirut

Ayyash 48, is reportedly a dual citizen . He was born in south Lebanon but also acquired a U.S. passport. Confirmed details of how he acquired US citizenship were not available .

Ayyash, is also a member of Hezbollah which the United States considers terrorist organization.

In addition to Ayyash 3 other Hezbollah members were indicted : Mustafa Badreddine, Hasan Aineysseh and Assad Sabra .

While Badreddine appears to be the prime suspect for masterminding the assassination of Hariri , Ayyash is reportedly accused of leading the cell which executed the assassination. Ayyash was reportedly helped by Hassan Aineysseh and Assad Sabra in Hariri’s murder.

Ayyash is considered a hero in Hezbollah party circles for his role in the 2006 war between Hezbollah and Israel, when he was among the leaders who helped repel the Israeli advance across southern Lebanon.
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
Arabic paper Palestine Times quotes Yediot Aharonot as saying that Egypt will release purported "spy" Ilan Grapel in the next two days.

Anonymous sources claimed that there has been fruitful communications between Israel and Egypt on the matter.

The US has also been involved in the negotiations.

Official sources would not confirm the story.
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
Earlier this week the New York Times reported on Gaza:
Two luxury hotels are opening in Gaza this month. Thousands of new cars are plying the roads. A second shopping mall — with escalators imported from Israel — will open next month. Hundreds of homes and two dozen schools are about to go up. A Hamas-run farm where Jewish settlements once stood is producing enough fruit that Israeli imports are tapering off.

As pro-Palestinian activists prepare to set sail aboard a flotilla aimed at maintaining an international spotlight on Gaza and pressure on Israel, this isolated Palestinian coastal enclave is experiencing its first real period of economic growth since the siege they are protesting began in 2007.

“Things are better than a year ago,” said Jamal El-Khoudary, chairman of the board of the Islamic University, who has led Gaza’s Popular Committee Against the Siege. “The siege on goods is now 60 to 70 percent over.”

Ala al-Rafati, the economy minister for Hamas, the militant group that governs Gaza, said in an interview that nearly 1,000 factories are operating here, and he estimated unemployment at no more than 25 percent after a sharp drop in jobless levels in the first quarter of this year. “Yesterday alone, the Gaza municipality launched 12 projects for paving roads, digging wells and making gardens,” he said.

So is that the news from Gaza in mid-2011? Yes, but so is this: Thousands of homes that were destroyed in the Israeli antirocket invasion two and a half years ago have not been rebuilt. Hospitals have canceled elective surgery for lack of supplies. Electricity remains maddeningly irregular. The much-publicized opening of the Egyptian border has fizzled, so people remain trapped here. The number of residents living on less than $1.60 a day has tripled in four years. Three-quarters of the population rely on food aid.
This has been a meme in the media since last year when the Gaza Mall was publicized by bloggers and then reluctantly reported on. There is no humanitarian crisis - but there is despair, and there are problems, and (it is implied) those are just as bad, or even worse.

Well, no, they aren't.

When Gazans are living better lives than a great percentage of the Arab world, it means that all the attention that they are getting for their problems is hugely exaggerated. It means that the reporters and NGOs are trying to justify, ex post facto, the ridiculous amount of money and time spent there.

But now that the New York Times has resurrected this meme, like all good news agencies, Reuters is compelled to copy it:
If pro-Palestinian activists unexpectedly manage to slip past Israel's naval blockade on the Gaza Strip in the coming days, they might be surprised by what they see in the Hamas-controlled enclave when they disembark.

Roads are being paved, houses are being built, new cars have taken to the busy streets and shops are full of myriad products. Even the longtime scourge of unemployment is easing marginally, boosting living standards for a lucky few.

"I have been without work since 2007. Now I can pick and choose," said construction worker Karem Hassoun. "Life has finally smiled on me and my seven children."

But look beyond the building sites and the handfuls of luxury vehicles and the grim reality of everyday life in Gaza is evident, with over 70 percent of people still below the poverty line following years of isolation, conflict and deprivation.

...While [Gazans] agree that there are many more goods on the shelves, the one thing that remains in short supply is hope for the future in a place where two in three of its 1.5 million people are from families of refugees.

"Gaza is essentially a prison, and while the conditions have improved, it remains a prison," said Omar Shaban, a well-known Palestinian economist.

"Therefore, people's hopes for a better future are crushed by reality and will remain on hold until the prison walls fall."
I don't think that it is a coincidence that Reuters employs the word "hope" prominently as what Gazans are lacking, when the American boat that is trying to get there is called "The Audacity of Hope."
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
Great article in AFP:
 With a concentration of start-ups just behind that of Silicon Valley and an impressive pool of engineers, Israel is becoming the new standard for high-tech, with a unique business model.
Internet-related activities contributed 9 billion euros (12.6 billion dollars) to the Israeli economy in 2009, representing 6.5 percent of GDP, according to a report from management consultancy McKinsey.
The sector is worth more than the construction industry (5.4 percent of GDP) and almost as much as health (6.8 percent).
The web economy has also created a total of 120,000 jobs, accounting for 4 percent of the country's workforce, McKinsey says.
From Microsoft to Intel through Google, IBM and Philips, almost all the giants of the Internet and technology have set up important research and development centres in Israel, spawning products and systems used worldwide.
"Israel is the country with the most engineers in its population, and it ranks second behind the United States in the number of companies listed on Nasdaq," said David Kadouch, product manager at Google Israel, which opened its R&D operation in 2007 and currently has 200 employees.
"It's really a second Silicon Valley. Besides the multinationals, all the major American investment funds are present," he said.
"The scientific community is very active, there is plenty of manpower and especially an entrepreneurial culture. There is a huge ecosystem around high tech, and what is fundamental is that here we think global."
Some 500 start-ups are created every year in the country of 7.7 million people, which grew by 4.7 percent last year according to the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development against an average of 2.8 for its member countries.
The OECD forecast for Israel in 2011 is 5.4 percent.
Israel's higher education institutions, particularly the Technion, the prestigious technological university in the northern city of Haifa, must take a large share of the credit for this creativity.
"All the groups have set up subsidiaries here because of the proximity of the talents of the Technion university where there are (people with) excellent CVs," said Yoel Maarek, president of Yahoo Research Israel, which employs about 50 people.
"I myself have studied at the school of bridge engineering in France but when IBM hired me it was thanks to my degree from the Technion," he said.
The huge Technion campus comprising 19 schools for 12,000 students trained 70 percent of the country's current engineers and 80 percent of the executives of Israeli companies listed on Nasdaq.
"Many students... are already snapped up by large foreign companies," said Ilan Marek, professor of chemistry at the Technion.
"In the early 2000s, we broke down the barriers between the four classical branches of science, allowing the students to move between fields and have a more global vision," he said.
"The key to the development of a country is to train leaders in science."
Saul Singer, co-author with Dan Senor of the book "Start-up Nation: The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle," believes the often maverick nature of many Israelis also plays a role.
"The lack of respect for authority is typical in Israel, it's a cultural thing, in line with start-up creating. There is no authority, it is very informal. There are two big factors, drive and determination, and taking risks. We have a very exciting business model," he said.
"In Israel there is a constant struggle with all kinds of adversity," he added. "These adversities are a source of creation and energy. Israel is a country with a purpose, a mission."
Kudos to Ma'an for publishing it. Translating it to Arabic would be even better!
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
From AP:
Two Palestinian officials say President Mahmoud Abbas is inclined to put off talks on a unity government with rival Hamas until after a U.N. vote this fall on Palestinian statehood.

The officials say Abbas fears running into difficulties with the West over an alliance with the Islamic militant group. This suggests he may have underestimated international opposition when he reconciled with Hamas in May.

The Palestinian officials said Thursday that Abbas wants to focus for now on getting U.N. recognition of a Palestinian state. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the issue.

Talks on a power-sharing government are already behind schedule. The main hurdle is naming a prime minister.
What a surprise! Not.

What is more confounding is that most states will happily recognize a "Palestine" that has been, and remains, two separate areas with separate governments and separate policies.
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
While the Dutch reporters acted ethically in rejecting the flotilla attempts to hide facts about Hamss ties and funding, other "reporters" are happily drinking the flotilla Kool-Aid.

I mentioned yesterday that one of the cheerleaders who styles herself a reporter is Mya Guanieri, who comes out with daily rah-rah dispatches and whose Twitter feed makes no secret of her full support for the flotilla.

When she published the photo of the old ladies in the flotilla, with her sarcastic remark that these "people really look like they're baying for blood, don't they?" I responded back with my post putting context on why Israel wants to ban the "little old ladies."

She replied with two tweets:

@elderofziyon hey, quick question. if you're an elder of "zion" why do you live in the USA? ;) that's pretty funny.

@elderofziyon you see, i LIVE in israel. israeli policy actually effects me.
My response:
@myaguarnieri I respect that. Are you therefore against J-Street, Am/Peace Now, and other groups that try to influence policy from without?
For some reason, she never answered. Pity.

I actually do respect the fact that she lives in Israel, but for her to use that as a reason to quash criticism from outside Israel is a bit hypocritical. After all, she is supporting an action, meant to change Israeli policy, that is conceived and led by non-Israelis!
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
Starting tomorrow, the PA will prohibit the import of Israeli watermelons.

Existing agreements between Israel and the PA prohibit any boycott of Israeli goods. The PA is always careful to emphasize that they boycott goods made by Jews in Judea and Samaria but not from within the Green Line.

They are not positioning this as a boycott, but rather as a means to protect local farmers who they say have higher costs and cannot compete with the Israeli product. 

However, it is possible that this is a tentative step in the direction of actually boycotting Israel itself.

As usual, Palestinian Arabs (besides farmers) will be the losers, as they will have to fork over more money for their produce.

Right now, some 76% of PA imports are from Israel, and 91% of its exports are to Israel. If they want to start a boycott, they have a lot more to lose than Israel does.

  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
From Globes:
The Myra and Sarah licensees today announced that the fields have potential reserves of 6.5 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, according to an analysis of the 3D survey by Netherland Sewell & Associates Ltd. (NSAI). The discovery is the third largest gas discovery offshore from Israel, after the 8.6 trillion cubic feet at Tamar and 16 trillion cubic feet at Leviathan. Myra and Sarah are located in deep water northwest of Netanya, and southeast of Leviathan, and are part of the Levant Basin, which the US Geological Survey estimates has 122 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

At today's press conference, Israel Land Development Company Energy Ltd. (TASE: IE) CEO Ohad Marani said, "Today is a celebration. We are going to be the next big thing in Israel."

NSAI estimates the gross mean resources at Myra at 4.5 trillion cubic feet with a 58% probability of geological success and 1.9 trillion cubic feet at Sarah with a 43% probability of geological success. The average probability of geological success for both licenses is 54%, compared with 35% for Tamar.

NSAI also estimates that Myra and Sarah could have 150.7 million barrels of oil, with an 18% probability of geological success. Myra has gross mean resources of 113.4 million barrels of oil with an 18% probability of geological success, and Sarah has 37.3 million barrels of oil with a 23% probability of geological success.
Bloomberg adds an important point:
“Its always exciting to find natural resources,” said David Kaplan, a Tel Aviv-based energy analyst at Barclays Plc. “The government has shown concern about having an effective monopoly on natural gas and none of the partners in Sara and Myra are partners in Tamar.”
  • Thursday, June 30, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
From Reuters:
The United States has decided to resume formal contacts with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a senior U.S. official said on Wednesday, in a step that reflects the Islamist group's growing political weight but that is almost certain to upset Israel and its U.S. backers.

"The political landscape in Egypt has changed, and is changing," said the senior official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It is in our interests to engage with all of the parties that are competing for parliament or the presidency."

The official sought to portray the shift as a subtle evolution rather than a dramatic change in Washington's stance toward the Brotherhood, a group founded in 1928 that seeks to promote its conservative vision of Islam in society.

Under the previous policy, U.S. diplomats were allowed to deal with Brotherhood members of parliament who had won seats as independents -- a diplomatic fiction that allowed them to keep lines of communication open.

Where U.S. diplomats previously dealt only with group members in their role as parliamentarians, a policy the official said had been in place since 2006, they will now deal directly with low-level Brotherhood party officials.

There is no U.S. legal prohibition against dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood itself, which long ago renounced violence as a means to achieve political change in Egypt and which is not regarded by Washington as a foreign terrorist organization.

But other sympathetic groups, such as Hamas, which identifies the Brotherhood as its spiritual guide, have not disavowed violence against the state of Israel.

The result has been a dilemma for the Obama administration. Former officials and analysts said it has little choice but to engage the Brotherhood directly, given its political prominence after the February 11 downfall of former President Hosni Mubarak.

...Elliott Abrams, a deputy national security adviser handling Middle East affairs under former President George W. Bush, said he favored dropping the ban on formal contacts -- but approaching any actual dealings with great caution.

Abrams said positions espoused by some Brotherhood members -- such as favoring religious tests for public office, questioning the rights of women and limiting freedom of religion or speech -- were "anathema" to the United States.

The group says it wants a civil state based on Islamic principles, but talk by some members of an "Islamic state" or "Islamic government" have raised concerns that their goal is a state where full Islamic sharia law is implemented. The group says such comments have been taken out of context.

"It's critical ... that we make it very, very clear to Egyptians, if we are going to do a meeting, that we are no less opposed to the ideas they represent," Abrams said, noting that there are splits among Brotherhood members.

"We have to think about whether we can use meetings to deepen those splits and to help, quietly, those who are trying to moderate the positions of the Brotherhood," he added, saying the United States should choose its interlocutors with care and that the talks need not be conducted by the U.S. ambassador.

The U.S. official who declined to be identified said U.S. diplomats "will continue to emphasize the importance of support for democratic principles and a commitment to nonviolence, and respect for minority and women's rights in conversations with all groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood."
This is far from a simple question, and Elliott Abrams' caveats are important.

From reading Wikileaks memos, I have much more respect for the State Department than I had before. They generate a lot of good analysis, and the only way for their analysis to be accurate is if they meet with relevant people. Meeting with MB leaders does not necessarily mean approving of their philosophy, and if it is done right, it can help matters in Egypt.

It all depends on having clear ground rules ahead of time and having diplomats who are experienced enough to know when they are being played. The current US ambassador to Syria has been shown to be an incompetent idiot that Assad's regime has fooled and manipulated to great advantage. But that does not have to be the case when you have diplomats who know what they are doing.

I can see how it can even benefit Israel to have back channels to talk to the MB, in matters such as Gilad Shalit or to get subtle messages to Hamas.

If the State Department is careful on how to engage with the MB, and checks the information being told to its diplomats with other sources, this can be valuable. A blanket "don't talk" policy is not always wise.

(h/t O, Joel)

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