Showing posts with label interview. Show all posts
Showing posts with label interview. Show all posts

Wednesday, December 20, 2023

Residents of Efrat Concerned for their security say yes to only Jewish and foreign workers  

 Interview with Stephanie Treger

Stephanie Treger is determined to keep her family safe by keeping Arabs without Israeli citizenship out of Efrat where she lives. Here in Efrat, in the heart of Judea, we know what happened on October 7th. Regular Gazans stampeded that fence, alongside Hamas, and joined right in with the slaughter. 

From Treger’s point of view then, there is no choice. We have to stop letting them in to clean our schools; build our homes; and fill our prescriptions at the pharmacy. To be clear, “them” means non-Israeli Arabs.

As such, Stephanie Treger has sparked a modest grassroots effort to explore the exclusive use of Jewish and foreign labor in her town. She began by gathering the opinions and ideas of lots and lots of women. A petition was carefully composed in language hopefully inoffensive to all, and circulated in both Hebrew and English.

Will Treger succeed in her mission? Where are things going, and how will it all play out? Will the residents of Efrat be forced to allow the entry and use of non-Israeli Arab labor?

Stephanie Treger

A busy mother of eight, Stephanie gave graciously of her time to answer my many questions about this initiative. As I always do with interview subjects, I asked her for a few lines of biographical data from which I would cobble together my intro. What she wrote was so cool, I’m quoting it here verbatim:

My name is Stephanie Treger, I am 36 years old. I live in Efrat, Gush Etzion, Israel, with my husband Brandon and our eight children. We made aliyah seven years ago from South Africa, Cape Town. We own Power Coffeeworks, a coffee roastery in Shuk Machane Yehuda in Jerusalem. We made aliyah based on our Zionism and belief in the Jewish people, our past, present, and future.

Varda Epstein: You’re one of the women at the forefront of the effort to bar non-Israeli workers from Efrat. The petition has been up since December 7th, a full two months after the October attacks. Why now? Were the attacks the impetus for this effort or had you already been working on this?

Stephanie Treger: Correct, I am. It did take some time to get the ball rolling to start this initiative. I believe the women who have started this organisation together with me were in survival mode for some time after 7/10. Most of our husbands and partners are serving, which left us alone, and once the true magnitude of the devastation became apparent, we got right on it.

It also took time to go public; even with a simple petition it had to be done slowly, the wording of our letter needed to be politically correct. We took opinions from many women at the start. This is a very large issue, politically and emotionally. There are over 3 million Arabs living in Judea and Samaria who need jobs, and who also fulfill jobs that keep our cities running. Before the attacks on 7/10, this was a background issue for us all, but we just carried on as normal, it was just too big to deal with.

Varda Epstein: Efrat is a very modern town with many professionals among the residents. Are you meeting any resistance to your campaign? Can you talk about that? What percentage of Efrat residents would you say support allowing in only Jewish and foreign workers?

Stephanie Treger: In all honesty, I am shocked at the lack of support to date. At the same time, though we have not yet opened the tables for discussion, we are at least not in argument with or meeting resistance from non-supporters. Still, nearly two weeks after launching a simple petition, we have only retrieved 650 odd signatures in a city of over 14,000 residents.

After the 7/10 massacre by thousands of non-Israeli Arabs, I am surprised that this community, made up of extremely intelligent professionals, would want to resume “the norm” and continue bringing in non-Israeli Arab workers. At two months after 7/10, our eyes have been truly opened, watching the videos and testimonies of the survivors as they are released. We know how horrific this infiltration was and how it was planned. The intelligence collected to launch such an attack took a certain kind of evil genius. This was planned meticulously and we have proof of that from a variety of sources.

How can we possibly stand by and say “Never again”? More like “again” every few years, if we continue on in this way.

Varda Epstein: Some would say the idea of barring entry to your town of a specific ethnic demographic is racism. What would you say to them?

Stephanie Treger: I am a non-racist South African. I was raised in a racist country, and this is not racism. This is not an issue of color or ethnicity. This is an issue of protecting our families from a cult of terrorists whose sole intention is to murder us. If that were not the case, we would be living in peace. Simple.

We Jews cherish life. We want peace, we do not want war and we do not want poverty, but sadly, until Hamas and the other terrorist cells seize to exist, we have to protect our people.

Varda Epstein: Arab workers can only enter and work in Efrat accompanied by a security guard. Why is this measure not enough to keep the residents of Efrat safe?

Stephanie Treger: Since this rumor was brought to the fore, I have documented many occasions where Israeli Arabs were not accompanied by armed guards. So no, the measure is not enough to keep us safe.

The problem here is manpower and I don't personally blame the municipality or the mayor as some do. We have a huge problem on our hands. Our resources are low, we have zero manpower and I have no doubt that our local government is trying to find solutions. But we also need to take responsibility as a community.

We have to mobilize and work within the system to find solutions. There are many residents in this community who do not work. These residents could pull together and assist in cleaning the schools or work at local cafes. There are ways to create solutions but we need all hands on deck.

Varda Epstein: What types of work have Arab workers performed in Efrat, up until now?

Stephanie Treger: This exact question is what prompts my concerns for our safety. The Arab workers who have previously worked in Efrat have been able to cover every corner of our city possible. From cleaners in homes, to cleaners in schools and emergency departments; from workers in our cafes and restaurants to garbage disposal to street cleaners; and from handymen to construction workers.

There is an endless untold amount of intelligence that might have been and probably was collected by Arab workers, endless over the passing years. The workers are often unaccompanied by security, and safety checks are lax, in my opinion.

Varda Epstein: Why would a mostly right-wing populace hire Arabs to begin with? Why not Jews—their own people?

Stephanie Treger: This seems to be the crux of our struggle. We are not hiring Jews because Jews are more expensive. Jews need to shell out for taxes, arnona, and pensions. At the same time, the incomes of prospective Jewish employees are low because they must pay the same taxes as their prospective (Jewish) employees.

Arabs, conversely, can charge below half-price; be paid in cash; they have no amenity payments; and do not contribute to our society. This is something that needs to be dealt with at government level. Government now has this issue on its table. Cabinets are approving “no entry”. Now they need to find the solutions to manage it.

Varda Epstein: The petition appears to distinguish between Israeli and non-Israeli Arabs. Why? Are only non-Israeli Arabs dangerous? You don’t want to keep out the others?

Stephanie Treger: Personally, I see no difference at present. Even if Israeli Arab X doesn't want to be a terrorist, Hamas is holding guns to the heads of X’s children. Should he refuse to comply with the cult of Hamas, his entire family will be annihilated. I too, would surrender if my children's lives were at risk.

I may want to keep them out, but it’s illegal to keep them out. Israeli Arabs with ID cards cannot legally be held back from entering any part of Israel.

Varda Epstein: This campaign was started by women. Why do you think that is? Are men less concerned with this issue?

Stephanie Treger: Men are at the forefront on the borders; we women are at the forefront of our homes. It's pointless having the men protect our borders if we are not doing the same in our communities. I live in a 35-year-old home. My doors are not secure, and my window frames are old. I do not have a safe room. I am home alone, with 8 children under 13.

Gd forbid there was an infiltration of Efrat. I, as a woman, armed or not, would not be able to protect my family. We women want to serve and protect and it begins every time we wake up alive.

Varda Epstein: Is there some kind of precedent that led to this effort? Are non-Israeli workers known to attack their Jewish employers?

Stephanie Treger: My sister sat in her safe room for 23 hours with her baby and husband in Kibbutz Kfar Azza on 7/10, while her sister-in-law, cousins, and friends were raped, beheaded, burnt alive, and brutally murdered next door. Some taken hostage. My passion for this initiative is personal. I also have a love for my people. Never again is NOW.

Varda Epstein: There are Arab businesses that have cropped up right on Efrat’s doorstep, just outside the northern gate, and many Efrat residents appear happy to frequent them. But recently, a video was released showing one of these new business owners calling for settlers to die. How do feel about that?

Stephanie Treger: When you see videos of neighboring Arabs promote the death of "settlers" we naturally get concerned. Videos such as those directed by Corey Gil-Shuster are eye-openers to us all. The specific video I have in mind is of a man who lives adjacent to Efrat. His property borders that of our beautiful coffee shop that we and our children love to enjoy during the day and in the evenings. 

 

In this man's driveway is a car wash and a laundromat which until 7/10 were used by the Jews of Efrat. He was earning his living from the Jews of Efrat. Since 7/10 he has closed his gate and is not earning a salary to support his family. So to what extent do we believe that at some point the consequences of poverty will kick in?

When will he get angry enough with the Jews of Efrat that eventually he will fall in with a terrorist organisation to have revenge on the people he hated before we even shut him down.

This new reality is sad but true. We Jews who live in Judea are at risk for terror and we must not take risks in protecting our families and our people.

Varda Epstein: Do you think that there is a reluctance among the residents of Efrat, even after the events of October 7, to adopt a general attitude of distrust toward non-Israeli Arabs, especially those with whom they’ve formed casual relationships? Is there a feeling of, “Oh, he’d never do something like that. He’s always polite and friendly, and gives me good service.”

How would you illustrate the dangers of this outlook, from your perspective?

Stephanie Treger: I would point them to the words of Professor Arye Eldad, who headed the plastic surgery and burns unit at Hadassah Medical Center, and is also a former member of Knesset:

I was instrumental in establishing the Israeli National Skin Bank, which is the largest in the world. The National Skin Bank stores skin for every day needs as well as for war time or mass casualty situations. This skin bank is hosted at the Hadassah Ein Kerem University hospital in Jerusalem where I was the chairman of plastic surgery. This is how I was asked to supply skin for an Arab woman from Gaza, who was hospitalized in Soroka Hospital in Beersheba after her family burned her. Usually, such atrocities happen among Arab families when the women are suspected of having an affair. We supplied all the needed Homografts for her treatment. She was successfully treated by my friend and colleague Prof. Lior Rosenberg, and discharged to return to Gaza. She was invited for regular follow up visits to the outpatient clinic in Beersheba. One day she was caught at a border crossing wearing a suicide belt. She meant to explode herself in the outpatient clinic of the hospital where they saved her life. It seems that her family promised her that if she did that, they would forgive her.

This is only one example of the war between Jews and Muslims in the Land of Israel. It is not a territorial conflict. This is a civilizational conflict.

Varda Epstein: Is this campaign going to continue to be a local, Efrat phenomenon, or do you have bigger plans for this—perhaps to take this national?

Stephanie Treger: We will see; we can't manage alone. We all need to hold hands. We were lucky to see that it went to government last week. We will take it day by day and do our best to succeed. It's all we can do really. 

NOTE: Go to PETITION to see, sign, and share. 



Buy the EoZ book, PROTOCOLS: Exposing Modern Antisemitism  today at Amazon!

Or order from your favorite bookseller, using ISBN 9798985708424. 

Read all about it here!

 

 

Tuesday, November 28, 2023

By Daled Amos

Varda Meyers Epstein lives in Eretz Yisrael and contributes to the Elder of Ziyon blog under the pseudonym Judean Rose. I wanted to get her perspective on the repercussions we are seeing in the wake of October 7.


Judean Rose


In the 2 weeks following the Hamas Massacre on October 7, there was a 400% increase in antisemitism, according to the ADL. Were you surprised by the breadth and intensity of these antisemitic protests and their violence?

No. I was not surprised, only sad. I’m sad that there was no other way for Diaspora Jewry to understand that this is still with us, other than for October 7th to happen. Now they understand and it’s heartbreaking. We feel it. They feel it, too.


What do you think caused this ferocity?

It was a powder keg getting ready to blow. When Hamas did what it did on October 7th, the call went out to make excuses for this in the context of supposed Israeli occupation and oppression, which of course is delusional propaganda. But the West that wants to hate Jews doesn’t care to examine things any too closely.


Do you think there is anything that can be done?

No. But while I don’t believe in boycotts, I do believe in individuals taking a stand against giving antisemitic actors, for example, royalties. I read about Susan Sarandon spouting falsehoods about Israel and I said to myself, “I will never watch another movie with her in it, again.”

The majority of creatives really hate the Jews. Sure, there are the actors who wrote a letter in support of Israel and against terror and antisemitism, but it’s all a numbers game. There are more haters than there are moral people on the side of right.

Protecting yourselves is another thing. If you want your Jewish child to get an education, you have to leave. It’s no longer safe for them to go to school. The hatred is no longer just on isolated college campuses. Antisemitism and antisemitic attacks have even hit elementary schools in the US and Canada.

I’m assuming you get where I think all Jews should be. I believe that were every Jew to make Aliyah today, the world would be too afraid of us to ever mess with us, again. Here too, it’s a numbers game. There needs to be more of us in Israel, since there are not more of us in the world. The terrorists, for example, are terrified of the God of Israel. When they see the Jews massing and banding together, they quake in their boots. It subdues them, and the world quiets down for a bit, maybe goes into hiding for decades. But it always returns at full force at some point.


While Israel retaliates, we have seen media bias as Israel strikes back against Hamas. But have there been any differences this time in the media? Considering the callousness of the Hamas massacre, do you think the media has been more circumspect?

No. But perhaps they get caught lying more frequently. Look how the BBC had to retract what they wrote about the al Shifa Hospital. 

They reported the exact opposite of what happened, stating as if it were fact that Israel targeted medical teams as well as Arabic speakers. Unbelievable chutzpa, or as they might say over at the Beeb: “cheek.”

I read a lot of news and listen to a lot of podcasts and talk shows. Israel is more in the news now, and I am impressed that Fox News is sympathetic to Israel. But they get so much of it wrong! Dana Perino, whom I really like, has spoken about how people are so ignorant of the history of the region, so they come to the wrong conclusions. She mentions, for example, that Israel left Gaza in 2005 and that claims of occupation are therefore imaginary.

Dana Perino



But if Perino is so knowledgeable about the region, why does she refer to Gaza as “Palestine.” One after the other, I have heard Fox news people refer to “Palestine” as if it were a thing. It is not. They get it wrong, and by doing so, they perpetuate the violence. They think they’re on the side of right, but in their smug ignorance, they are anything but. They’re spreading propaganda, thus carrying water for the other side and perpetuating falsehoods.


What do you see as the cause of this bias -- is it ignorance or maliciousness?

Malice. If it were merely ignorance, they would still be culpable for malice, because they didn’t care enough to discover the truth and were willing to smear Israel and the Jews without doing even minimal research.

There are codes of ethics for journalists. They have to follow the rules because otherwise people get hurt. But if no one is following the rules, they can get away with it, especially in a Jew-hating, Israel-hating world.


Are there any in the media you would single out, one way or the other?

By far, the BBC is the worst. 

Their blatant bias is the norm. It’s never an accident. The incident with Jeremy Bowen reporting that Al Ahli Hospital in Gaza “was flattened” is a good example. The network was forced to issue a vague apology when the story was discovered to be a complete fabrication.

Asked if he regretted the damning report, in which Bowen, citing a Hamas source, also claimed that hundreds had been killed and thousands injured, the reporter said he didn’t “feel bad at all.” He went with what the photos looked like to him at that time. Is this proper journalism? No. It’s the unspoken policy at the BBC. Make Israel the lede; make it, Israel, bleed.





But the BBC is only a reflection of British society and seriously ingrained British antisemitism. When it comes to antisemitism, I always say that “the British are first and worst,” going all the way back to 1144 and William of Norwich, the first known case of the blood libel.


Can anything be done?


It’s difficult because you have useful idiot Jews they can parade before the public and then they can forever more say, “Even so and so with a yarmulke says Israel is evil,” as happened with Christiane Amanpour’s Benzi Sanders interview




What about Israel and Hasbara -- What else can be done?


I’m not big on Hasbara. I’m big on the truth, which is why I think there should be more support for independent bloggers advocating for Israel. We say things you won’t hear in the media, and right now our people are thirsty for accurate information. The best bloggers always bring reputable sources, which they link to for credibility so you can read more deeply on the subject.


The media bias parallels the overall anti-Israel propaganda that we have seen. In what areas has anti-Israel propaganda been successful?


The anti-Israel propaganda has been so rip-roaringly successful on so many levels that it’s difficult to know where to begin. But let’s start with the worst one, in my opinion, legitimizing the massacre. There is no context that makes the events of October 7th okay. Anyone who parrots such thoughts, even if they don’t really care and just want to be popular, should not be part of normative society.

Ripping down posters of captives? Why is that a thing? Because they’ve legitimized the massacre.

Why does a professor say he is "exhilarated" by the massacre? He says it to let you know that the massacre was not only legitimate but indicated. He also says it in order to normalize genocide, to laud terrorists for murdering Jews in cruel ways.


The success of this propaganda is enabled in part by the distancing of American Jews from Israel. What do you think has led to this alienation of American Jewry?


Jews are very vulnerable to Stockholm Syndrome. In order to be accepted by the predominantly non-Jewish world, they adopted beliefs antithetical to the good of their own people—of themselves. Why does any Jew call for a two-state solution? Don’t they know that the Arabs got 78% of the British Mandate for Palestine? Don’t they know that when they sing “Next year in Jerusalem” at their Passover seder they are actually affirming the right to return to their indigenous territory?


Do you think the Hamas massacre has served as a wake-up call?

Yes. Just as Kristallnacht served as a wake-up call. So tell me: why do we still need wake-up calls? When will we understand antisemitism as a permanent feature of life that can only be dealt with by strengthening Israel?





Buy the EoZ book, PROTOCOLS: Exposing Modern Antisemitism  today at Amazon!

Or order from your favorite bookseller, using ISBN 9798985708424. 

Read all about it here!

 

 

Friday, November 24, 2023

By Daled Amos

Colonel Richard Kemp is a retired British Army Commander who served from 1977 to 2006. He has spoken out in defense of Israel against Hamas, against those who have accused it of violating international law. I had an opportunity to talk with him about what he thought about the ceasefire with Hamas.

Colonel Richard Kemp



You don't have to have a military background to see the military benefits of this ceasefire for Hamas, but what about Israel? Other than rescuing the hostages, Does Israel get any benefit out of this ceasefire? 


I think there is nothing really that Israel can do as a result of this ceasefire that they wouldn't have been able to do anyway. There is no direct on-the-ground military advantage for Israel.


So is there any upside at all to this cease-fire for Israel?


The upside for Israel is that obviously, many people are sympathetic to the families, and a lot of pressure on the government to agree to arrange for the release of the hostages. That is important because of what Israel is going through. There are a lot of soldiers being killed and a huge amount of disruption to the society in Israel. It is extremely important that the population is kept supporting the government's actions. And I think this ceasefire and the release of hostages helps with that. That is one of the upsides. 


The other upside is there is a lot of pressure from the United States on Israel to agree to this cease-fire, and it is important for Israel to take into account the opinions of the White House because the continued support of the US president is extremely important to Israel.


Those are the only two upsides, besides getting the hostages back, which obviously is important.


On the flip side, does Hamas lose anything by this ceasefire, or is it a pure win for them?


Hamas doesn't lose anything. They can only benefit. They get breathing room in which to regroup, recover, maybe replenish weaponry, and reorganize themselves for what is going to come next. That is obviously an advantage for them, but equally a disadvantage for Israel. 


And the other benefit is for those who are already sympathetic to Hamas and opposed to Israel. Hamas's humanitarian image is going to be improved. They will be seen as willing to release some of these hostages. That doesn't add up for any rational person, but it will be portrayed in that way by some in the media who oppose Israel. So I think that is a pretty big benefit to them. And it is a pretty big drawback for Israel. There is obviously a lot of public support for what Israel is doing in light of the horrors of the seventh of October but memories fade, and they fade very quickly if you are not directly involved. I think there will be a bit of a shift of sympathy toward Hamas's image on this.


So Hamas is not going to look weak or desperate?


To me personally, it makes Hamas look very weak. It is a sign of desperation by Hamas and I hope that other people will see it that way as well. To release these hostages in exchange for 150 Hamas prisoners is an unprecedented deal by Hamas. Normally, they would want a lot more prisoners. It just shows how weak they are because frankly, the 150 prisoners who are being released -- Hamas couldn't care less about them. Whereas Israel gains the release of 50 hostages, Hamas doesn't gain these 150 prisoners because Hamas doesn't get any real benefit from them. So all Hamas is getting out of the ceasefire is that breathing room. 


There are other downsides for Israel as well, not military but geopolitical or strategic downsides. When the ceasefire goes into effect, there will be a great deal of pressure on Israel to extend it. People have been watching a large number of civilians getting killed and the destruction inside Gaza. Many people don't understand why that is necessary and are determined it should end. They will be pressuring Israel on this ceasefire to extend and extend and extend. And of course, Hamas will try to do the same thing by offering a further drip-feed of hostage releases, which if Israel does not have sufficient resolve to withstand could be very detrimental to the long-term campaign.


The second major strategic downside is that some Arab countries will see this as a sign of Israeli weakness because most Arab countries want to see Israel destroy Hamas. Hamas threatens them, maybe indirectly, but it threatens them. They want to see Israel smash Hamas. And they will see this ceasefire maybe as an Israeli weakness. I'm talking about countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. They want a strong Israel, an Israel that can defend itself and can also help defend them. So I think that this could be an undermining of confidence in Israel. 


Along those lines, some suggest that a goal of Iran on October 7 could have been to undercut the Abraham Accords as a joint front against Iran. Would you agree?


Yes, I would agree that one of the reasons for the attack was that Iran wanted to disrupt and terminate the normalization, particularly between Israel and Saudi Arabia. I think the Abraham Accords has held together during this conflict. I do think that it is quite likely that after the conflict in Gaza is over, it is likely there will be a resumption to get normalization between Israel and the Saudis. The ceasefire might delay this,  but it is likely to go ahead. The Saudis are not fools; they know very well why Iran directed this attack to happen. 


I do not believe this hostage release alone is going to be pivotal in any of these Arab relationships. It doesn't help matters because the Accords are not just about economic benefits. It is about military strength and support by Israel. Israel just has to be extremely careful to conclude this war effectively and successfully and guard against any further actions that could be seen as weakness by the Arab countries.


So taking into account the hostage deal, Israel really cannot afford to stop short of the complete elimination of Hamas?


I agree. I think it is essential that Israel achieves that and has a minimum delay in doing it. Obviously, the longer the delay, the more problematic it is. Also, I think that Israel has to look very carefully at what is happening in the north with Hezbollah. It has to be dealt with. If Israel doesn't address Hezbollah and act against Hezbollah after what Hezbollah has been doing during the last few weeks, that too will be seen as a sign of weakness. 


It is not only the Arab countries that will get that message about Israeli weakness, but also the US. The US wants to see a strong Israel. Whether that is the agenda of President Biden or was the agenda of President Obama, I do not know, but I think that in broader terms the US needs a strong Israel because the US has other major concerns outside the Middle East, including what is going on in Europe, China and Taiwan, etc. and needs a strong Israel that is not overly dependent on the US and also bolsters the security of other Arab countries against Iran. 


You wouldn't necessarily be able to tell that from Biden's actions in relation to Iran, but I think more broadly in the longer term that is important for the US and Israel.


So the repercussions of this ceasefire and hostage deal extend beyond the Middle East?


The Biden administration has had a track record of weakness, going back to the very start of his presidency, which was soon followed by the withdrawal from Afghanistan. That was a major sign of weakness. We have also seen the Biden administration's weakness over Ukraine, failing to give enough support to Ukraine to enable it to succeed against Russia. The ceasefire is good for Russia and China and the other enemies of the US. The last thing that the US needs now is further signs of weakness. The pressure on Israel not to take the war to its obvious conclusion and the pressure on Israel not to deal with Hezbollah -- play straight into the hands of Russia, China, and Iran. 


Netanyahu is in a weak position, both because of accusations that he is partly responsible for Oct 7 and because of the backlash against his judicial reforms. And that weakens Israel as well -- True, Oct 7 has unified Israel, but now with the ceasefire -- what is the mood in Israel, now?


I've been here, In Israel, since a few days following the October massacre, and I've seen what is going on here. I think that Israel is very closely united in seeking to destroy Hamas. There is not much dissent, if any, among people in Israel. I think there has been more division in terms of the hostages. I've spoken to a lot of people in different positions in the government, in the military, and the ordinary people in the street about what their views are, and obviously there are quite a few different perspectives. I would say the majority have reservations about the ceasefire to enable the release of the hostages, but I think the majority -- though they may have reservations -- also think this is the right thing to do. I haven't done my own poll, but my impression is the majority is behind what is happening. 


In straight military terms, I see the ceasefire for the hostages as a military negative for Israel, but Netanyahu has more important things to concern himself with than just the military campaign. He has to take into account public opinion and public pressure, plus pressure from the US. You have to look at the perspective of how much Israel needs the US, both politically and militarily. Israel has stood up to the US on some things but there has to be some give-and-take.


 Putting aside the geopolitical, what about the protests in the West -- how might the ceasefire affect them? 


The protestors are not going to be calmed by a short ceasefire. They are going to seize on it as something they can work on to try and continue and apply pressure on their political leaders to get the ceasefire extended. I think if anything it could lead to an upsurge. And then assuming the hostilities continue in Gaza, we could see an upsurge in protests and violence. I think it is going to get worse than it has been so far. I think the ceasefire is going to have a more inflammatory effect on the protests.


What will Gaza look like post-Hamas -- who will be in charge?


I think the IDF will have to retain overall security responsibility in Gaza, which will either require a permanent presence there or the ability to move in and out at will. Maybe they will have to take over the immediate general management of the Strip as well unless the UN steps up to the mark quickly. I suspect Israel and its partners will be trying to identify someone from within Gaza who can be empowered to take over the reconstruction as soon as possible, backed by international money. The other alternative is the PA, but I suspect this is unlikely.


Finishing up, from a military perspective is there anything that you would like to see Israel do differently? 


I don't think so. I think Israel's tactics have been remarkably successful in their military operations inside Gaza, probably exceeding the expectations of the IDF commanders. Fundamentally, I would not see an alternative to what they are doing. 


And things like the civilian death rates, we have no idea what they are because we don't believe the Hamas figures on that, though they are significant, I'm sure. But Israel is taking the most effective possible steps to minimize civilian casualties. However, it is impossible to prevent them altogether when you are fighting an enemy that hides behind the civilian population. You have two choices. You can either say you cannot attack the enemy because civilians might die and you will allow the enemy to remain a threat, or you say that it is unfortunate that some civilians are going to die -- we cannot stop it, but that is just the way it is.


The actions of the UN, particularly the Human Rights Council, the NGOs, the universities, the politicians in some cases -- their activities going back to the Goldstone Report have led to this situation. The whole objective of Hamas has been the delegitimization of Israel by carrying out attacks that force Israel to respond in ways that result in the deaths of civilians, which are then condemned as war crimes. So all of that is playing directly into Hamas's hands. That is the cycle of violence that exists in the Middle East. It is not the cycle of violence in which Israel is involved. Instead, it is the cycle of violence in which Hamas, the UN, other international bodies, and other political leaders are involved. These people who have condemned Israel unjustly of war crimes over the years have blood on their hands. They have directly led to what is going on today.





Buy the EoZ book, PROTOCOLS: Exposing Modern Antisemitism  today at Amazon!

Or order from your favorite bookseller, using ISBN 9798985708424. 

Read all about it here!

 

 

Sunday, August 13, 2023

By Daled Amos

Aryeh Lightstone served as an advisor to US Ambassador David Friedman and as special envoy to the Abraham Accords. His account of his experiences, Let My People Know, was published last year. Today is the third anniversary of the announcing of the Accords. 

Last week, I had the opportunity to interview Aryeh Lightstone, days before the news that there was progress in getting Saudi Arabia to join the Accords. The text has been edited for clarity.


How does it feel to prove all of the experts wrong by negotiating the Abraham Accords Then Trump is voted out of office, those "experts" are back -- and they are back to spouting the old disproven policy.


That's why I wrote the book Let My People Know. In May of 2021, Matt Lee,  the great reporter for the AP, asked Ned Price, the spokesperson of the State Dept., what were these agreements called. And you can watch 2 minutes and 47 seconds of Ned Price turning himself into a pretzel to do anything but say the words "Abraham Accords." 





To me, that was insulting -- not because I needed to hear it, but because there were countries that took a risk and joined a circle of peace without preconditions and they called it the Abraham Accords. So for the US not to honor, recognize and support this agreement that it brokered, and walk away from it was so reprehensible. So that is why I wrote "Let My People Know" -- so that people will know about the Abraham Accords. And if people knew what they were, Democrats would be up in arms against such ignorance by the Biden administration. The very first time that the Biden Administration came out pro-actively supporting the Abraham Accords was the day after the Afghanistan debacle, so they know that it works. It's just a question of whether they can get past the personality and politics to get to the policy. They know it is good policy, it's just bad politics to openly say it. 


The Abraham Accords happened because of the leadership of Jared Kushner, Jason Greenblatt, David Friedman, yourself and others -- but it was more than that. What else had to fall into place, both in the Arab world and in Israel to make this happen?


Well, I think a couple of different things happened. 


Foremost, the United States is the undisputed superpower in the world and when we act that way, a lot of really good things happen. When we back away from that, there is a vacuum. And it is not filled by Costa Rica -- it is filled by the Russians, the Chinese and the Iranians. And for all their genuflecting to others, the Democrats put the world at enormous risk. Every one of our allies knows who we are, but sometimes we don't know who we are. One of the greatest things we did was move the US embassy to Jerusalem. Israel didn't need us to do that, we needed to do that. We were afraid to move the embassy because of what other countries were going to say or do when we took an action that we wanted to do. But when we made that move, that was a superpower move. And when we opened up the embassy 6 months later, the rest of the countries in the region said, "Wait a second. This is an America who knows who they are and we want to be close to this America. And the path to Washington runs through Jerusalem." They know that the only democracy in the Middle East has a special relationship. And the closer those other countries are to that special relationship, the more they can elevate their own relationship with the United States. 


Secondly, Israel is an attractive friend because of its economy and because of its military strength. It is not a "noch schlepper." Just look at what world leaders said during COVID. They said that the solutions were going to come from the US or from Israel. Just look at the number of calls that the US National Security Council had with other countries. We had a twice-weekly call with Israel. We didn't have that with any other country. World leaders see the innovation, the power and the strength that comes out of Israel. Israel is the prettiest girl at the ball. 


You see the Arab countries who come and say that they want to build for the next hundred years, not re-litigate the last hundred years. How do they do that? They see that the Palestinian Arabs, by not moving forward on peace, are holding these Arab countries back and if they can move the Palestinian issue to the side then they can go ahead and take the next step forward. That takes a lot of guts and courage from those leaders.


Thirdly, Iran is terrifying.


Now suddenly the same Biden Administration that couldn't say the words "Abraham Accords" is now pushing it. What changed?


I'm very skeptical that anything gets done. And here's the reason: Biden hasn't officially invited Netanyahu to the US.  And when he met MBS last year in Saudi Arabia, the question was whether he was going to shake his hand or give him a fist bump. When the president cannot decide to embrace two of our allies, it is going to be very hard to picture him in that 3-way handshake. And the reason he cannot do that three-way handshake is that according to Biden's politics, MBS is a bad guy and Bibi is a terrible guy. And that's a shame because both of those leaders and the people they represent are incredibly important to the US. I don't see how Biden overcomes that.


The second thing is, why did it take them so long to come around to the Abraham Accords? Because who won in the Abraham Accords? Israel won -- which is not such a great thing in the world of progressive Democrats. The people that Obama tried to undercut -- MBS and Bibi -- got stronger. These are strong, great leaders that we need to support, but there is a difference between Democratic and Republican foreign policy. 


The more the Abraham Accords succeed, the less likely it is for there to be a two-state solution on the 1967 lines. And that is the great foreign policy goal of the Democrats. And the more you push the Abraham Accords, the less leverage the Palestinian Arabs have and the less likely meaningful concessions can be extracted for the Palestinians. That is really why the Democrats cannot get behind the Accords.  


So the Biden Admin is going to push the Abraham Accords even though they are antithetical to the JCPOA?


Getting the Saudis to join will guarantee three things:


Biden will win a Nobel Peace Prize.


There may be a grand bargain involving the Saudis and Israel to step back from protesting against the Iran Deal.


They can get meaningful concessions, or put Bibi in a situation where he will be forced to change his government or retreat from the judicial reform. 


The Saudis are the great prize that changes the Middle East forever.


Can you picture a scenario where it would be inadvisable for Israel to enter into the agreement with the Saudis?


I can picture a scenario in all situations where there would be a disadvantage. But for the most part, peace is a good thing with external countries and I do not imagine Netanyahu's government saying this would not be a good idea. This Israeli government has certain red lines and it is not going to move on these red lines. 


But won't the Saudis insist on Israeli concessions to the Palestinians?


The Emiratis told Israel that it had the option to apply or not apply sovereignty, but if it did not then they would start a relationship with them. Israel had not applied sovereignty up to that time, they still have not applied it, and now they have peace with five Muslim countries. Israel will call that a win. There are things the Saudis can ask that are beyond the pale and there are things that are very reasonable. 


We believe the problem is not the Palestinian people. The problem is the so-called leadership of the Palestinians. Anything that enfranchises the leadership is a mistake for the region and the Saudis see that also. If there is something that helps the Palestinians have better jobs and better opportunities, I think Israel would embrace it. I think the region should embrace it. 


You mentioned Russia, China, and Iran -- how dangerous are they to the Middle East in general and to the Abraham Accords in particular?


When China brokers a reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Iran, the biggest losers at the table are the US and Israel, because as soon as the US retreats from the Middle East, even a little bit, someone else shows up. And if it is China, it means Russia and Iran as well. And that is dangerous. How much is that a danger to the Abraham Accords? The Abraham Accords have proven to be incredibly resilient. If the US does not project power appropriately, that will weaken Israel, because Israel has made clear they are with the US. You'll see other countries throughout the region and throughout the world who say they are not sure whether they love the Chinese policy or not, but they can count on it for the next 100 years. But US policy seems to change every four years -- and it doesn't change a little bit. It changes 180 degrees. It's really hard to make plans when you don't know whether the US is your ally, depending on who wins an election that you have no influence over. It's really a scary thing for our friends and allies and it weakens the United States. 


There has been talk over the past few weeks about whether the time has come that it would be beneficial for Israel for the US to end military aid. If the US were to do this, what kind of impact would that have on the Accords?


Every time the US takes a step back, that weakens Israel's hand because the US and Israel are so tightly linked. But in this case, the US weakens itself. The aid that goes to Israel is incredibly well-spent money in the US. The aid might not be in Israel's best interest, but it is in the US's best interest. 


By the way, it is absolutely in the US's best interest to make sure that Israel and the rest of the region are linked to the US and not to China. If you look at China's spreading influence, China has great natural resources, Russia has great natural resources, and Iran has great natural resources -- and now Saudi Arabia has the greatest natural resources. So if China secures that corridor, they become a power that is incredibly threatening to us. Forget about military reasons, just for economic and energy dominance. 


Now take the opposite approach: cut off China's influence in Iran, which is a natural place to cut off, and you have the entire Abraham Accord region extending through Oman, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Jordan, Egypt and Israel -- all as one strong alliance, getting along with each other, all deregulated. That's unlimited land, unlimited workers, unlimited energy and unlimited economics -- all in the US corner, surpassing what China is able to do. This is the pivotal part of the math that we need to win, "we" meaning the US. We need to win the Middle East, purely with influence. Israel and UAE  are willing to defend themselves by themselves and the US gets a tremendous return on that investment. We shoot ourselves in the foot when we don't do that.


Why are the Saudis edging towards Iran and should we be afraid of how far they may go?


The Saudis are undergoing one of the greatest experiments in world history, of building a nation while reforming it and modernizing it all at the same time with basically unlimited resources. But this is a culture that does not adapt very quickly. They are cautious. But the Crown Prince MBS is not being cautious -- he is going at warp speed.  The agreement with Iran, brokered by China, reflects the Saudi attitude that they are not in the war business, they are not in the war of religion business -- they are in the building-a-nation business. So they want to be left alone, and this agreement is what it will cost to be left alone.


Again, this happened because the US took a step back. If the US had been there to say "This is our region and an attack on the Saudis is an attack on us" -- those words would matter, because no one wants to attack the US in a way that pokes the bear and it in turn attacks them. They only attack the US and their allies when we are weak. When we are strong, they don't do that.


It's in the Chinese interest to have the Saudis and Iran get along also.


But while the Saudis may want to be left alone, leaving other countries alone is not something Iran is known for -- as Syria, Lebanon and others can attest.


Yes, but Syria and Lebanon are not Saudi Arabia. The UAE re-established relations with Iran. They are basically saying "I accomplish nothing by considering you the axis of evil, especially since I don't have the axis of good on my side."


The Middle East is trying to get out of the war business and trying to get into the sustainability business, how to get from an oil and gas-based economy to an economy that works without oil and gas. They are trying to compete commercially, not ideologically. And because of that, they are trying to be friendly with everybody.


It is difficult to be friends with some countries. Iran is number one. But I think all of those countries look around and say "Well, Israel will probably take the brunt first and we'll see where the world is. See if the US can have a consistent policy towards Iran, whether Iran will turn nuclear." There are a lot of things that will happen in the next four to six years that will determine what people's permanent foreign policies are toward Iran. 


The Biden administration will condemn Israeli domestic policies but where are they on these people in Iran who are sacrificing their lives on the street, this ultimate bravery in a non-democratic world? Just contrast these two things and I don't know what set of world values somebody can have where they want to pick what is right and wrong in Israel but will not pick the side of truth versus falsehood in Iran. This is just moral bankruptcy.


Have the Abraham Accords had any positive influence on the Palestinian Arabs?


Two weeks ago, Abbas visited Jenin for the first time in eighteen years. To think that there is a Palestinian Authority is a joke. They are a bunch of different tribes that exist independently. If The US would work with specific individual leaders there, we could cultivate some meaningful relationships. But you need consistent policy across the board from Israel and from the US. 


If it hadn't been for COVID and if we had had the support of the Abraham Accord countries also, then the Emiratis or Saudis or Moroccans could have come in and built Palestinian Arab businesses and industrial zones -- better than the US or Israel could do it.


The way I rank the greatest beneficiaries of the Abraham Accords in order are the US, Israeli Arabs, the Abraham Accord countries, the Palestinian Arabs and finally Israel. We'll see if I'm right or not as this plays out in the next twenty years.


You mentioned Israeli Arabs. How do they benefit?


Put yourself in the shoes of an Israeli Arab. From an identity perspective, that is a difficult place to be when the rest of the region has chosen to isolate you instead of embrace you. And if you are looking at the leader of the Arab world in terms of modernity you are looking at the UAE, which is considered "cool" And if the UAE says that Israel is "cool", and I as an Israeli Arab can be a link between the UAE and Israel -- then that gives me a strategic advantage. I can be a bridge instead of being in isolation. So as more countries join and you have a uniform Middle East where you can land in Tel Aviv or in Abu Dhabi and take a train without needing your passport or a visa across Saudi and Oman and Qatar and Bahrain and Israel and Jordan -- at that point being an Israeli Arab is going to be very advantageous. That will solve their dual identity challenge.


I am very friendly with two Arab Israeli business leaders and their eyes light up when talking about the Abraham Accords because they speak both languages. I'm not talking about speaking to the investors but to the people of the UAE, Bahrain and Morocco. Israeli Arabs realize that together with these Arabs and Israelis they can do incredible things. They see the unique opportunities they have. If you were to put the same Israeli Arab in Silicon Valley, they would be disadvantaged. It is the opposite of the Israeli who because of his networking background would fit right into Silicon Valley, but does not fit in as well as the Israeli Arab in Abraham Accord network.


 You wrote in an article in the Jerusalem Post last year that "the single greatest lever to encourage other countries to join the Abraham Accords, and yes that includes the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, is to show that the current Abraham Accord countries are a unique priority for Israel." Will the current tensions and protests in Israel negatively affect how its partners in the Abraham Accords see them as an ally?  


What bothers me in the current situation is the language of the protestors and counter-protestors. It is reprehensible and shows a complete lack of awareness of the precarious situation Israel finds itself in. For four years I told other countries you cannot use derogatory language about Israel and now you have Israelis using that exact language about each other. Now when someone applies terms like "apartheid" "dictator" etc to Israel, they don't have to quote one of our more progressive members of Congress. They can quote the opposition leader or the Prime Minister or the former Prime Minister. It has never worked out well. It's turning an opponent into an enemy. It's unforgivable if you know anything about Jewish history. It's unforgivable when you are trying to acclimate yourself to a region that doesn't have a lot of free speech and protests.


Why do we not hear as much about Arab travel to Israel as we hear about Israeli travel to Arab countries?


Two factors 


Israelis enjoy traveling everywhere. Compare this to the 1.2 million Emiratis and 400,000 Barhraininas -- about 1.6 million between them. Of the traditional Arab citizens of those countries, unmarried women are not going to travel on their own and the children are not going to travel until they are more established and married. So it is a fairly limited Arab population that is going to be traveling to Israel for non-business reasons. The flow is more in one direction.


To me, the big change will be when Jordanian and Egyptian businessmen and women are coming back and forth as business people and as tourists. That will be another sign of the warming of the region. There is an acculturation process that is going to happen.


If you go to Morocco or the UAE or Bahrain, they are thrilled with Israeli tourism and also the American Jewish tourism.


Any final words?


Bottom line, does any of this really matter?


We understand how the Abraham Accords matter to Jews and people who are pro-Israel because of shared values. But why should the Accords matter to someone in Iowa or Kansas?


I'd like to make the argument that it matters meaningfully, primarily because under Trump we saw that when you act like a superpower and you stand with your allies and friends, you can end up with meaningful results that the so-called experts never predicted -- and the ramifications become incredibly meaningful. 


We were able to block out the Chinese from an area they were expanding into. Then, when we retreated, the Russians, Chinese and Iranians showed up. The Ukrainian situation would not have happened if the US had not retreated from the ME in the way that we did. To me, the Abraham Accords are the canary in the coal mine. As the Accords expand and grow, you will see the Chinese cautious about Taiwan and the Russians more hesitant about Ukraine. As we retreat, back off and have two distinct foreign policies, you will see chaos. Because it illustrates two foreign policies which are no foreign policies and anybody can run amuck. That is what you are seeing now.





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This blog may be a labor of love for me, but it takes a lot of effort, time and money. For over 19 years and 40,000 articles I have been providing accurate, original news that would have remained unnoticed. I've written hundreds of scoops and sometimes my reporting ends up making a real difference. I appreciate any donations you can give to keep this blog going.

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