Thursday, July 28, 2011

  • Thursday, July 28, 2011
  • Elder of Ziyon
There was an interesting Twitter discussion today between Israel's deputy foreign minister Danny Ayalon and well-known writer Jeffrey Goldberg.

Ayalon had posted a popular YouTube video about the West Bank, and Goldberg wrote an article belittling it. Ayalon and Goldberg then went to Twitter to continue their argument.

It was so popular that no less than two articles have already been written about the thread, each drawing different conclusions.

I jumped in at something Goldberg wrote to Ayalon:

Keeping the WB will bring about the end of Israel as we know it.

The thread after that:

elderofziyon says:
@Goldberg3000 "Keeping the WB will bring about the end of Israel as we know it" This is an all-or-nothing fallacy.

Goldberg3000 says:
@elderofziyon why?

elderofziyon says:
@Goldberg3000 Read the link. If Israel keeps Area C (for example) and the Pals declare state in A&B then demographic threat gone.

Goldberg3000 says:
@elderofziyon And endless war ensues. If you were Palestinian, would you accept less than 100 percent of West Bank, including land swaps?

elderofziyon says:
@Goldberg3000 If the point is independence, yes. But that isn't the point, is it? Remember Herzog's famous "size of a tablecloth" quote.
@Goldberg3000 And given the importance given to "right of return," why wouldn't endless war ensue even with 100%?

Goldberg3000 says:
@elderofziyon It very well might. I've never said there are great options on the table

elderofziyon says:
@Goldberg3000 Thanks.. Which is why to my mind the pressure should be on compromise so Israel has security and Pals have a state.

Goldberg3000 says:
@elderofziyon I believe, however, that Israel will become a pariah if the Palestinians aren't granted statehood, or the vote in Israel.

elderofziyon says:
@Goldberg3000 That is an issue, but one that probably can't be discussed effectively here. Goodwill towards Israel usually lasts a month.
I left it at that, for now.

Meanwhile, Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe jumped in:

@Goldberg3000 @elderofziyon And after Pal statehood or voting rights, there'll be 6 new demands Israel must fulfill or "become a pariah."
@Goldberg3000 @elderofziyon Left-wing Zionism would be healthier if it weren't so hungry for the goodwill of Israel's foes & critics.

@Jeff_Jacoby @elderofziyon Why do you instantly assume left-wing Zionists are left-wing because they seek approval from Israel's enemies?

@Goldberg3000 @elderofziyon I assume nothing. But left-wing Zionists do evince a strange need to win their (non-Jewish) enemies' approval.

Examples, please.

That thread is continuing as I write this, but it is not an avenue that I think is too fruitful. The fear of Israel becoming a pariah state is an important topic, though, and one that I would like to treat fairly - which means, not on Twitter.

As soon as I find the time.

EoZTV Podcast

Podcast URL

Subscribe in podnovaSubscribe with FeedlyAdd to netvibes
addtomyyahoo4Subscribe with SubToMe

search eoz




follow me

Follow by Email


Elder: elder -at- elderofziyon dot com
Mrs. Elder: mrs.elder -at-



For $18 donation

Sample Text

EoZ's Most Popular Posts Ever


Elder of Ziyon - حـكـيـم صـهـيـون

This blog may be a labor of love for me, but it takes a lot of effort, time and money. For over 12 years and over 25,000 articles I have been providing accurate, original news that would have remained unnoticed. I've written hundreds of scoops and sometimes my reporting ends up making a real difference. I appreciate any donations you can give to keep this blog going.


Donate to fight for Israel!

Monthly subscription:
Payment options

One time donation:

subscribe via email

Follow EoZ on Twitter!



The Jerusalem Report:"A seemingly indefatigable one-man operation, armed only with a computer, chutzpa and stamina."

Algemeiner: "Fiercely intelligent and erudite"

Omri: "Elder is one of the best established and most respected members of the jblogosphere..."
Atheist Jew:"Elder of Ziyon probably had the greatest impression on me..."
Soccer Dad: "He undertakes the important task of making sure that his readers learn from history."
AbbaGav: "A truly exceptional blog..."
Judeopundit: "[A] venerable blog-pioneer and beloved patriarchal figure...his blog is indispensable."
Oleh Musings: "The most comprehensive Zionist blog I have seen."
Carl in Jerusalem: "...probably the most under-recognized blog in the JBlogsphere as far as I am concerned."
Aussie Dave: "King of the auto-translation."
The Israel Situation:The Elder manages to write so many great, investigative posts that I am often looking to him for important news on the PalArab (his term for Palestinian Arab) side of things."
Tikun Olam: "Either you are carelessly ignorant or a willful liar and distorter of the truth. Either way, it makes you one mean SOB."
Mondoweiss commenter: "For virulent pro-Zionism (and plain straightforward lies of course) there is nothing much to beat it."
Didi Remez: "Leading wingnut"

Interesting Blogs


Abbas liar Academic fraud administrivia al-Qaeda algeria American Jews Amnesty analysis anti-semitism apartheid arab refugees Arafat archaeology art ASHREI B'tselem bahrain bbc BDS BDSFail Bedouin Beitunia beoz book review breaking the silence Cardozo Chanukah Christians conspiracy theories Cyprus Daphne Anson Davis report DCI-P double standards Egypt Elder gets results ElderToons Electronic Intifada EoZNews eoztv Erekat EU Euro-Mid Observer Fake Civilians 2014 Fatah featured Features fisking flotilla Forest Rain free gaza freedom of press palestinian style future martyr Gary Spedding gaza Gaza Platform George Galloway George Soros gideon levy gilad shalit gisha Goldstone Report Good news Grapel Guardian gunness Haaretz hamas Hamas war crimes hasbara Hasby 2014 Hasby 2016 Hebron helen thomas hezbollah history Hizballah Holocaust denial honor killing HRW Human Rights Humanitarian crisis humor Hypocrisy ICRC Ilan Pappe impossible peace incitement Indonesia international law intransigence iran Iraq Islamic Judeophobia Islamism Israel Loves America Israeli culture Israeli high-tech J Street jabalya jeremy bowen Jerusalem jewish fiction Jewish Voice for Peace jihad jimmy carter John Kerry jokes jonathan cook Jordan Juan Cole Judaism Judea-Samaria Kairos Karl Vick ken roth khalid amayreh Khaybar Lebanon leftists Linkdump lumish mahmoud zahar Malaysia max blumenthal McGraw-Hill media bias Methodist Miftah Mohammed Assaf Mondoweiss moonbats Morocco music Muslim Brotherhood Nakba Natural gas Nazi News nftp NGO NIF norpac NYT Occupation offbeat Omar Barghouti Opinion oxfam PA corruption PalArab lies Palestine Papers pallywood pchr PCUSA Peter Beinart Petra MB poll Poster Preoccupied Prisoners propaganda Proud to be Zionist purimshpiel Qaradawi Qassam calendar Rafah Ray Hanania real liberals reference Richard Falk rogel alpher roger cohen roger waters Saudi Arabia saudi vice self-death self-death palestinians sex crimes SFSU shechita sheikh tamimi Shujaiyeh Simona Sharoni SodaStream South Africa Speech stamps Syria Tarabin Temple Mount Terrorism This is Zionism Thomas Friedman Tunisia Turkey UCI UK UN UNDP unesco unhrc United Arab Emirates Unity unrwa UNRWA hate unrwa reports UNRWA-USA Varda Vic Rosenthal Washington wikileaks work accident X-washing Yemen zahran zionist attack zoo Zvi

Blog Archive