Wednesday, September 10, 2008

  • Wednesday, September 10, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
I like a good parody, but sometimes one finds a real-life story that is so way beyond parody that even if someone would have invented such an over-the-top character, no one would have found it believable enough to be humorous:
The Shondes, a four-piece political post-punk band from New York City, are the outsiders' outsiders, but they wear that badge with pride.

This queer political band, heavily influenced by riot grrrl and queercore as well as traditional Jewish music, gets its name from the Yiddish word for “shame” or “disgrace.” Three-quarters of the band are Jewish and three-quarters are trans.

The band's in-your-face, dramatic debut album, The Red Sea, has created comparisons to the now defunct all-girl rock trio Sleater-Kinney as well as political punk Patti Smith.

Windy City Times spoke with drummer Temim Fruchter right after they kicked off their long, fall tour.

WCT: I noticed that several of you are involved in Jews Against the Occupation ( an anti-Zionist organization ) . How much would you say Judaism influences your music, your sound? Obviously, it influences your life.

TF: I would say just as much as any aspect of our lives influences our music. For the three of us, Judaism is pretty central to who we are. So, we sort of bring that to the table as much as our activism, as much as the other stuff and components we bring to the music.

WCT: And all of your either identify as queer or trans, as well, so I'm sure it's just as important as that aspect of your life.

TF: Exactly.

WCT: Since many of your are involved in both Jewish activism, as well as the queer community, I was wondering if you ever receive any negative feedback from the Jewish community, or for the most part, are most people really progressive and welcoming?

TF: We definitely encountered people in various communities who have been challenged by some of views, particularly about Israel-Palestine, and those are some of the conversations with more mainstream Jewish outlets, so that isn't part of the subject. But we've mostly just had productive and interesting conversations. Definitely, overall, we constantly have supportive audiences—people who are really interested in the music, but people who are also interested in the content and are either challenged by it and talk about it, or support it and are excited that there is music that is affirming that content.

It always fascinated me that "Jewish activists" have completely disregarded Judaism for activism, and instead use Judaism as an excuse to justify their causes. They usually use the words "Tikkun Olam," or "perfecting the world."

That term has been mostly popularized by Tikkun Magazine, the far-left, pro-Arab magazine founded by fake rabbi and Friend of Hillary Michael Lerner.

The tikkunolam.com site says:
Tikkun Olam, healing and repairing the world, is a primary mission of the Jewish people.

Other recent citations of the phrase can be seen at the Rabbis for Obama site:
Some of us know Senator Obama personally, and we recognize that he has been inspired by Jewish values such as Tikkun Olam and the pursuit of justice, and he is deeply committed as well to a civil discourse between opposing arguments.
One could be excused if one thinks that Tikkun Olam as activism for social issues is a great mitzvah, one of the commandments given by G-d to Jews (or perhaps mankind).

The source for the phrase Tikkun Olam is not the Torah, though, but the Talmud. Many examples of Tikkun Olam are given in Tractate Gittin, but they generally are meant to stop people from doing various sins. None of the Talmudic examples have anything remotely close to what the current users of the phrase have in mind.

Another prominent example is found in the thrice-daily Aleinu prayer, where Jews ask G-d "to perfect the world under God's sovereignty" -- a purely spiritual quest. Later, Kabbalists expanded the concept somewhat but it is still oriented towards Jews doing their own mitzvot, to perfect themselves and thereby helping to repair the world, in a more mystical sense.

Either way, the concept is clearly not biblical and not nearly as expansive as many people assume. The idea has been changed into an amorphous concept that molds to whatever preconceived notions one has about the environment, or justice, or politics, or really any subject one wants. Today, we have a strange situation where the phrase is used to apply to people like the Shondes, who are the antithesis of the concept (and whose name, while meant to be ironic, ends up being anything but.)

This is not to say that the idea of Tikkun Olam is irrelevant. However, if a Jew wants to apply Tikkun Olam to today, he or she needs to increase spirituality, not decrease it; to inspire by adhering to the religion, not by replacing it with some sort of wishy-washy universalist message that has nothing to do with Judaism. Rabbi Jonathan Sacks summed it up nicely:
Our task is to become a particular living example of a set of universal truths, and therefore the conflict between the universal and the particular in Judaism is not a conflict at all because it is only by being Orthodox Jews that we are able to mitaken ha’olam - it is only by being true to ourselves that we can be true to other people. Only if we preserve the sanctity of Jewish family can we talk with authority about the sanctity of the family to the world. Only by studying Torah can we speak compellingly about the value of education and human dignity. Only by having the courage to be different can we be role models to the dignity of difference. That is why Tikkun Olam in my view is the special responsibility of we who are the guardians of Torah.
This is a univeralist goal that can only come about from a particularist application of real Jewish laws and ideas, and this is the real meaning behind Tikkun Olam.

UPDATE: Hillel Halkin at Commentary apparently made a similar point last month (full article not online.) h/t EBOZ

EBoZ emailed me the article; it makes many of the points I made but in the context of "40 short essays by a group of American Jewish intellectuals and social activists, all on the Left, appearing in a new book called Righteous Indignation." Many of those essays invoked Tikkun Olam, and, as Halkin writes, almost all of them get it wrong:
And so it goes. Health care, labor unions, public-school education, feminism, abortion rights, gay marriage, globalization, U.S. foreign policy, Darfur: on everything Judaism has a position—and, wondrously, this position just happens to coincide with that of the American liberal Left.

If it is easy to caricature most of the essays in Righteous Indignation, this is because so many of them caricature themselves. They represent the ultimate in that self-indulgent approach, so common in non-Orthodox Jewish circles in the United States today, that treats Jewish tradition not as a body of teachings to be learned from but as one needing to be taught what it is about by those who know better than it does what it should be about. Judaism has value to such Jews to the extent that it is useful, and it is useful to the extent that it can be made to conform to whatever beliefs and opinions they would have even if Judaism had never existed.

...The Jewish public interest is not a concept that plays a role in any of the 40 essays in Righteous Indignation. Just as the authors of these essays take almost no interest in the state of Israel, apart from chiding it for its various alleged faults of racism, religious intolerance, militarism, and so forth, so they take almost no interest in the American Jewish community except insofar as it is prepared to act outside of itself. They want world repair—and they want it now. An end to environmental exploitation! An end to economic injustice! An end to sexual inequality! An end to war! And since the end will not come of itself, let Jews go out into the world and force it.

What is entirely missing from the book and its righteously indignant authors is the slightest sense of the world’s complexity or of the fact that repairing almost anything can involve breaking something else. Yes, it is possible to reduce global warming significantly—but only at the cost of reducing standards of living around the world, including those of the poor. It is possible to let homosexuals marry and raise children like heterosexuals—but only by making heterosexuals wonder what is the point of marrying and raising children. It is possible not to go to war—but only by condemning the people of Iraq to life under a barbaric and aggressive dictatorship, and by continuing to condemn the people of Darfur to an indescribable misery that only military force can put an end to. There are few cost-free solutions to anything.

This is something that those who bandy the phrase tikkun olam might be expected to be aware of.
It is a very nice essay, but only available for subscribers to Commentary.
  • Wednesday, September 10, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
An 11-year old boy was shot and killed in central Gaza; circumstances still unclear.

The IDF and Shin Bet found a 15-kg bomb in Jenin.

Two Hamas sites were bombed in Gaza City, no injuries reported.

The 2008 PalArab self-death count is now at 160.
  • Wednesday, September 10, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
A couple of years ago I would regularly point out the huge number of small earthquakes that hit Iran every day. The IRNA "news" agency would publish the details of each event.

IRNA has not done that lately. Which is a shame, because Iran's shaky seismology should be a major concern to everyone who might be affected by a nuclear facility that gets compromised by an earthquake.

But today IRNA was forced to admit an earthquake, because this one was fatal:
A powerful quake measuring six on the Richter scale in Qeshm, Hormuzgan province, claimed three lives and injured 26 people.

Iran's Red Crescent Society has dispatched rescue teams equipped with most sophisticated equipment to the region.

Iran is often shaken by quakes of varying magnitudes as it sits on some of the world's most active seismic fault lines.

While Hormuzgan is not that close to Bushehr or other known nuclear facilities, all of Iran is at danger for earthquakes.

I wonder why the far left, always at the forefront against nuclear power, has been largely silent about Iran's building a nuke plant in a known earthquake zone?

  • Wednesday, September 10, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
How the PA handles demonstrators: Last night a PalArab man was shot by PA security forces as he was demonstrating against a water shortage in a camp north of Bethlehem. Ten more were beaten. (Yesterday it was reported that the man was killed; this morning it is reported that he was injured.)

Caustic terror: A PalArab woman threw acid on the faces of two IDF soldiers at the Huwwara checkpoint. She escaped into Nablus.

Hamas still trying to break strike: Hamas continues to raid the houses of doctors participating in the health-care strike in Gaza. Hamas also closed dozens of free clinics that the striking doctors set up in Gaza City. I have yet to see a "human rights" organization blame Hamas for these kinds of activities; instead making "even-handed" statements about how both sides are wrong.

Trouble in Paradise: There are increasing reports of friction between Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza, although they are trying to hold talks in Damascus.

Shocking: A Gazan was killed - apparently electrocuted - while working in a smuggling tunnel on the Egyptian border.

Party of God wants to party: Hezbollah leader Nasrallah hinted that he would attack Israel if Israel does anything "aggressive," even in Gaza.

Another humanitarian crisis in Gaza: A number of articles have complained bitterly about the plastic bag shortage in Gaza, forcing some stores to make bags out of newspapers to sell their goods. Prices for plastic bags have gone way up as some suppliers hoard their inventories. Lauren Booth will have to carry her souvenirs by hand.

"Stupid woman": A Gazan man, probably a municipal worker or teacher, divorced his "stupid" wife because she didn't want him to continue his Fatah-encouraged strike in Gaza.

Tuesday, September 09, 2008

  • Tuesday, September 09, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
I just ran the Hamas Charter through Wordle. It tells you pretty much what you need to know:

  • Tuesday, September 09, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
Brian of London at Israellycool notices a May interview with Barack Obama:
Right off the bat he reaffirmed that Hezbollah is “not a legitimate political party.” Instead, “It’s a destabilizing organization by any common-sense standard. This wouldn’t happen without the support of Iran and Syria.”

I asked him what he meant with all this emphasis on electoral and patronage reform. He said the U.S. should help the Lebanese government deliver better services to the Shiites “to peel support away from Hezbollah” and encourage the local populace to “view them as an oppressive force.” The U.S. should “find a mechanism whereby the disaffected have an effective outlet for their grievances, which assures them they are getting social services.”

When has US aid ever convinced a hostile population to change their allegiances? Has Egypt become pro-US with the billions it gets every year? This is dangerously naive.

But it gets worse:

The U.S. needs a foreign policy that “looks at the root causes of problems and dangers.” Obama compared Hezbollah to Hamas. Both need to be compelled to understand that “they’re going down a blind alley with violence that weakens their legitimate claims.” He knows these movements aren’t going away anytime soon (“Those missiles aren’t going to dissolve”), but “if they decide to shift, we’re going to recognize that. That’s an evolution that should be recognized.”
What, exactly, are Hezbollah's "legitimate claims"? Hezbollah is not a Palestinian Arab movement; it is a Shiite movement with the single-minded goal of destroying Israel. Is Obama saying that there is a small amount of legitimacy in that goal?

And what about Hamas? Their "claims" are for 100% of Israel to become an Arab Islamic nation, and eventually part of a new Islamic 'ummah. They aren't asking for an independent Palestinian Arab state - somethign they effectively have already. They want Israel destroyed as well. Where, exactly, is the "legitimacy" there?

Obama doesn’t broadcast moral disgust when talking about terror groups, but he said that in some ways he’d be tougher than the Bush administration. He said he would do more to arm the Lebanese military...
Back in May it was already clear that the Lebanese military had zero interest in restraining Hezbollah, or even regarded it as an enemy. It certainly hasn't done anything to stop the smuggling of weapons into Southern Lebanon and it has not asked the UN to help in stopping Hezbollah activities - something that it has the right to do under UN 1701.

This is the sort of touchy-feely, "root cause" based foreign policy that we can expect from Barack Obama. Give people who already don't like you money and weapons, and they'll suddenly become loyal friends - and they will also turn against those who they are ideologically tied to.

  • Tuesday, September 09, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
A terrorist that Israel released last month will marry another terrorist that Israel released the month before. Will the first son be named "Jihad"?

Mahmoud Abbas will extend his presidency by an additional year without elections, after consulting with legal experts who agreed that it is all fine and dandy. He also threatened to pursue legal actions against Hamas for terrorism, bringing Hamas to the Hague if necessary.

Hamas, meanwhile, declared all of Abbas' decrees to be null and void retroactive to July 3rd saying that the Palestinian Legislative Council has not approved any of them. Hamas is attempting to create its own alternative or successor to the PLC.

Members of the Al-Qaeda inspired Jaysh al Ummah group is calling on Hamas to release their leader, Abu Hafss, arrested last week. Reuters thinks that Hamas arrested him after they got some "exclusive" photos of their training in Gaza (this picture is from a second round of photos.) However, Hamas clearly gives Jaysh al-Ummah as much room in "crowded" Gaza as they need for training.

Israel is planning to build a joint Israel-Arab industrial zone in the northern West Bank to employ some 10,000 Palestinian Arabs and 2,000 Israelis. It will be funded by the US and EU to the tune of some $200 million and will ultimately end up exactly like Erez did in Gaza.

Egypt killed two more Sudanese trying to get into Israel.

UPDATE: A PalArab man was shot and killed as he was demonstrating against a water shortage in a camp north of Bethlehem. The 2008 PalArab self-death count is now at 159.
Reuters has a series of photos published this morning that depict a Ramadan play being performed in Iran:

Members of Iran's Revolutionary Guard perform in a play at their military base in northeastern Tehran, September 8, 2008. The play tells the story of the history of human creation till the time of the Iran-Iraq war (1980-88) and Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
REUTERS/Morteza Nikoubazl (IRAN)

As of this writing, there is no accompanying news story, so we cannot see too many details about this clearly important cultural event that has Reuters sending out no fewer than nine separate photos of the play over their wires.

Guess what? This play seems to have a special obsession with Jews. Reuters, using the identical caption as above, shows us another scene:
But perish the thought that Reuters should use the word "anti-semitic" in their description of the play. No, it's just a factual play that shows an accurate depiction of world history, crammed into a couple of hours. And if the Star of David happens to be equated with the swastika, well, isn't that history in Reutersville?

I wonder if the Spanish Inquisition is a song-and-dance number?

Monday, September 08, 2008

A few of months ago there was a small kerfuffle when an absurd book, written by an Israeli professor of cinema and French history named Shlomo Zand, postulated that there is no Jewish people and no Jewish nation. No one took it the least bit seriously except for, unsurprisingly, Ha'aretz, which published a number of articles about it. The author has no expertise as an historian and the ideas in the book have been well-debunked elsewhere.

It was only a matter of time before the anti-Israel crowd would seize on this shoddy piece of pseudo-scholarship and use it to show the complete illegitimacy of Judaism, Zionism, Jewish history and any non-Arab in the Middle East.

For example, Gilad Atzmon just wrote a worshipful article about this book, and added his own layers of stupidity on top.

He quotes Zand in Ha'aretz and adds his own "proof":
In case you follow Zand’s line of thinking and happen to ask yourself, “when was the Jewish people invented?” Zand’s answer is rather simple. “At a certain stage in the 19th century, intellectuals of Jewish origin in Germany, influenced by the folk character of German nationalism, took upon themselves the task of inventing a people ‘retrospectively,’ out of a thirst to create a modern Jewish people.”

...It is an established fact that not a single Jewish history text had been written between the 1st century and early 19th century.
That last sentence seemed a bit too declarative to me, so I just looked a bit at Google Books for histories of Jews that predate the 19th century. A single counterexample should be enough to prove that the entire thesis is ridiculous, and, sure enough, I found it:

The History of the Jews: From Jesus Christ to the Present Time: Containing Their Antiquities, Their Religion, Their Rites, the Dispersion of the Ten Tribes in the East and the Persecutions this Nation Has Suffer'd in the West. Being a Supplement and Continuation of the History of Josephus
By Jacques Basnage, sieur de Beauval Jacques Basnage, Thomas Taylor, Pre-1801 Imprint Collection (Library of Congress)
Translated by Thomas Taylor, of Magdalen College Oxford Thomas Taylor
Published by Printed by T. Bever and B. Lintot [etc.], 1708
759 pages
Plus, a well-known and disputed work that still serves as a counter-example:

The Wonderful, and Most Deplorable History of the Later Times of the Jews: With the Destruction of the City of Jerusalem, which History Begins where the Holy Scriptures Do End
By ha-Levi Abraham ben David, Abraham ben David, Sebastian Münster, Peter Morwen, James Howell, J. S.
Published by Printed for W. Thackeray, and are to be sold by James Gilbertson at the Sun and Bible on London-Bridge, 1689
340 pages
This last example seems to be at least a partial translation of a book written in the tenth century.

And, finally:

The History of the Present Jews Throughout the World: Being an Ample Tho Succinct Account of Their Customs, Ceremonies, and Manner of Living, ... Translated from the Italian, Written by Leo Modena, ... To which are Subjoin'd Two Supplements, One Concerning the Samaritans, the Other of the Sect ...
By Leone Modena
Published by printed and sold by Edm. Powell, 1707
286 pages
Atzmon isn't the only anti-semite to seize on Zand as the latest savior of racist philosophy. Rense.com, for example, wasted no time quoting Tom Segev's review in Ha'aretz.

Of course, there are a myriad of other reasons to prove that both Zand and Atzmon have no idea what they are talking about, but this one just struck my fancy.
  • Monday, September 08, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
One of the larger ironies in this conflict is that the people who are most against any permanent resettlement of PalArab "refugees" are usually the ones who live in the most comfort themselves. Europeans of Palestinian Arab descent are among the loudest in railing against even the hint of a "resettlement" of genuinely desperate Palestinian Arabs, while the ones who are in the worst shape will consistently say that they are more than willing to be resettled anywhere.

The hypocrisy of those who claim that the "right of return" is sacrosanct is most obvious when we talk about the 2000-3000 Iraqi refugees of Palestinian origin who are stuck in real camps between the Iraq and Syrian borders. The UNHCR is responsible for these refugees, not the ineffective and counterproductive UNRWA, and the UNHCR has been trying hard to find countries worldwide that could accept even a very small number of them to be resettled.

The biggest obstacles that the UNHCR faces are so-called "Palestinian leaders" themselves. They are so invested in keeping Palestinian Arabs stateless and poor that they fight tooth and nail against their own people - of their own volition - relocating to countries where they might become happy, and no longer pawns.

Reading between the lines of this article in Ma'an News, one can see where the real problem lies:
Iceland decided to accept 29 stranded Palestinian refugees after appeals by UNHCR seeking to find permanent solutions for the group of mostly widows and their children.

The group, made mostly of women and children, has been stranded on the Iraq-Syria border for two years, according to UNHCR spokesperson Ron Redmond who spoke at a press conference in Geneva on Friday.

UNHCR says there are approximately 2,300 Palestinians living in refugee camps made mostly of tents.

For these Palestinians, under the protection of the United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR), the organization feels that "resettlement is their only option."

According to Redmond, the commission has "repeatedly called for international support for the Palestinians, but with few results." Though there have been 300 refugees settled in Brazil and Chile recently. Redmond noted that "some urgent medical cases were taken by a few European countries, but this is a very small proportion of the 2,300 Palestinians stranded in the desert."

The two camps that most Palestinian refugees from Iraq are living in have minimal services. Tents provide shelter for hot summer sun and freezing winter temperatures, and the nearest medical facilities are 400 kilometers away.

UNHCR has announced that a second group of refugees, made up of 155 women and families, are scheduled to resettle in Sweden.

Many Palestinians worry that if they are resettled in a new country they will be giving up their right to return to Palestine if and when that option becomes available. In his statements to the press, Redmond stressed that relocation to escape the dire circumstances of camp life would "in no way jeopardize their right to return at any stage, if and when such a possibility arises."
Who are these "many Palestinians" that are so worried? Certainly it is not the ones who live in Gaza under Hamas rule, who are more than willing to relocate to other countries if they could. Certainly it is not the ones in these Iraqi/Syrian camps. Certainly it is not the ones who live in Lebanon, stateless, who would grab any opportunity to become full citizens of the country they were born and raised in if they were given the chance.

No, the "many Palestinians" who are against any sort of resettlement are the ones who already live in Europe and write angry op-ed pieces about this sacred "right of return." They are the Palestinian Arab leaders who will decry any hint of a permanent solution for their people that does not include destroying Israel. They are the leaders of other Arab countries who would never want Palestinian Arabs to become citizens in their own countries - but pretend that this bigotry is for the good of Palestinian Arabs themselves!
  • Monday, September 08, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
Al Hayat al Jadida reports that a Belgian parliamentary delegation visited Ramallah yesterday and laid a wreath at the grave of the syphilitic godfather of modern terrorism, Yasir Arafat.

They now join other illustrious people who have genuflected to the symbol of the murder of civilians worldwide, including Jimmy Carter, Mahmoud Abbas, Kofi Annan, Jack Straw, Vladimir Putin, Ban Ki-Moon, Gerry Adams (Sinn Fein head) and leaders of North Korea.

Those who refused to engage in this sick tribute to Arafat include Tony Blair (although he did visit he refused to lay a wreath), George Bush and Condi Rice.
  • Monday, September 08, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
The latest Zionist crime: stealing water - from the Nile. The crafty Jews have managed to dig wells from the Negev, through the entire Sinai and past the Suez Canal in order to steal precious Nile water, according to unnamed "human rights" activists. Some six conduits of water are alleged to have been built under the Suez Canal. Their estimate is that Zionists are prepared to steal some 3 billion cubic meters of water to irrigate the Negev.

Islamic Jihad claims to have uncovered a "network of collaborators" in Gaza. People accused of "collaboration" with Israel have historically been killed but there have been no reports of any deaths for that reason over the past few months despite regular reports of such discoveries. It is entirely possible that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have found ways to murder people without anyone finding out.

Palestine Today reports
that Doctors Without Borders has finally commented on the doctors' strike in Gaza. (I couldn't find anything about it on the actual MSF website.) According to this report, the organization blames both Fatah and Hamas for the reduction in medical services in Gaza and Hamas' systematic abductions and beatings of doctors is only mentioned in passing as not helping to alleviate the situation.

Meanwhile, more doctors are being abducted by Hamas and others forced to work at gunpoint. Also being targeted are female health care workers.

The latest seizure of bad food in the West Bank was a shipment of expired dates that was infested with bugs. Of course, it came from "settlements."

Sunday, September 07, 2008

  • Sunday, September 07, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
A small story in Firas Press says that Hamas cut off electricity to a building in Gaza City that houses a number of media outlets, including Reuters and Al Hayat al Jadida, for the fifth day in a row. (The story was originally written by the pro-Fatah Palestine Press Agency.)

Nothing about this at Reuters or any other news outlet.
  • Sunday, September 07, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
From the Jerusalem Post:
Three Jewish counselors from the Bnei Akiva youth movement were attacked not far from the organization's central branch in Paris on Saturday afternoon. The boys, aged between 17 and 18, had just finished the Sabbath minha prayer when they were attacked by a group of Muslims.

According to a press statement released by World Bnei Akiva spokesman Tzvika Klein, the youths were initially approached by a group of three Muslims and African immigrants who began to hurl chestnuts in their direction. When one of the counselors complained, the assailants began yelling out anti-Semitic remarks. Between 10 to a dozen other attackers wearing knuckle dusters joined the original three and began beating up the Jewish group until police arrived at the scene.

...The victims' families filed a complaint with local police that had responded by opening an investigation into the incident, which has already been recognized as an anti-Semitic attack by local authorities.
Now, let's see how Palestine Press Agency reported it:
A group of young Moroccans attacked three young Israelis serving as guides for a Jewish youth movement in Paris Sunday evening, causing minor to moderate injuries.
You see, since Islam is a religion of peace and has nothing against Jews, it is of course impossible for Muslim youths to have attacked Jews. So the victims must have been Israeli, thereby turning it from a hate crime into a simple political disagreement which is perfectly OK.

Because everyone knows that "Zionists" are fair game to be the recipients of "resistance," worldwide.
  • Sunday, September 07, 2008
  • Elder of Ziyon
Discuss something.

I dare ya.

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