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Thursday, December 20, 2018

A Twitter conversation with Americans for Peace Now @PeaceNowUS

From last Friday:





  1.  Dec 14
    Textbook example of the Orwellian way in which right-wing extremists seek to deflect from their endorsement of law-breaking and land theft. It's pretty simple: Terrorism perpetuates the conflict. Settlements perpetuate the conflict. Neither is justified.

    Replying to @PeaceNowUS
    Seriously? Does Hamas shoot rockets to Ashkelon because of settlers? Were bus bombs in Tel Aviv because of settlers? Are you really effing blaming the pregnant woman for being shot becaus…



  2.  Dec 14
    Arabs killing Jews pre-dates the "settlements." It pre-dates the state. Explain that. Or do you blame the Jews for having the chutzpah of wanting to live in Tel Aviv? Or Jerusalem? Or 1929 Hebron? I'll enjoy your attempt.





  3.  Dec 14
    per·pet·u·ate /pərˈpeCHəˌwāt/Submit verb make (something, typically an undesirable situation or an unfounded belief) continue indefinitely.





  4.  Dec 14
    Tell me, did the Jews leaving Gaza make Hamas more peaceful? Stop being idiotic. It is antisemitism. The hate towards Jews in Hebron today is IDENTICAL to that towards Jews in Hebron in 1929. You are blaming the Jews that exercise their human right to live in their homeland.


  6. Replying to  
    If, God forbid, Jews would leave Judea and Samaria and the terror increases, how long before you insist on a withdrawal to the Partition lines? Because according to you,"both sides" are responsible. Always. Sick.
    10:17 AM - 14 Dec 2018
    1 reply1 like


      1.  Dec 14
        Replying to 
        We advocate a negotiated Isr-Pal peace agreement, w/ 1-to-1 land swaps, that would leave most Israelis where they live now in the West Bank. Israel would then have complete moral high ground and full int'l support (see: Arab Peace Initiative) when responding to terrorism





      2.  Dec 14
        International support? Tell me, why didn't the world pass the anti Hamas resolution last week? You remain delusional.



      3.  Dec 14
        then /T͟Hen/ adverb after that; next; afterward.





      4.  Dec 14
        You are basing the entire raison d'etre of your organization on a logical fallacy. Remember the "then" of Gaza withdrawal? No, you'd rather forget it.



  7.  Dec 14
    Like most American Jews, APN supports a two-state solution. There can be no denying that settlement expansion prevents this, which is why you don't even attempt to do so. Palestinian terrorism and rejectionism also prevent a 2SS, one of many reasons why APN condemns both.
    1 reply1 like





  8.  Dec 14
    In actual area, settlements are taking up virtually the same space they did in the 1990s. Do you deny that? It comes from your own publications. They aren't expanding in any meaningful way. You scream that they are.... because your agenda isn't the truth.





  9.  Dec 14
    In total, more than 40% of the West Bank is under direct control of settlers or settlements (along w/ hundreds of kilometers of roads dividing Palestinian cities & towns); expansion continues in these areas. In 1993, WB settlers numbered roughly 130,000; today, more than 430,000
    1 reply





  10.  Dec 14
    SO you cannot deny that settlements aren't expanding, space wise. You cannot deny that your assertion that withdrawal would bring peace is anything more than wishful thinking. You can't deny that previous moves towards peace were not reciprocated. But you can use a dictionary.
    1 reply1 like





  11.  Dec 14
    We get it- you're committed to ignoring everything we just said and the facts behind it, and you get mad when we point out the meaning of words you ignore or misconstrue. Shabbat shalom.
    1 reply





Replying to 
Tell you what. I'm so embarrassed by this exchange that I'll post it on my blog. I challenge you to do the same, since you are so convinced you won.
11:13 AM - 14 Dec 2018

So, as promised, here's the exchange. Americans for Peace Now claim that I'm the one who is ignoring everything the other says and that I "got mad."

Needless to say, APN didn't post their withering takedown of this supposed "right wing extremist" on their blog. (I have little problem with a two state solution - if Israel had an actual peace partner that would allow Jews to live there, to buy land and to freely visit their holy places without fear. The fact that the idea of such a solution is so absurd is the real problem, not Israeli intransigence.)

The post I linked to from 2010 is an important one. Peace Now's main argument is that "We advocate a negotiated Isr-Pal peace agreement, w/ 1-to-1 land swaps, that would leave most Israelis where they live now in the West Bank. Israel would then have complete moral high ground and full int'l support when responding to terrorism."

But does Israel really have full international support for Gaza operations after its full withdrawal? Does it really have full international support to respond to Hezbollah after its full withdrawal from Lebanon? It is an absurd fallacy, and Peace Now's entire existence is based on this fallacy of "IF Israel does what we want, THEN things will be peachy keen."

No one can argue that the "if/then" formulation is anything but wishful thinking. But it is the entire basis for Peace Now's existence!

It never worked before, but groups like Peace Now insist, without any evidence, that it will work - next time. And if it doesn't, well, it is because Israel didn't do enough. 

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